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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Although I have been a DTV customer since 2000 and had one of the original Sony SAT-T60 TiVo units this is my first post to your forum. Excellent source of information! Not sure where to post this so parts of this may have been covered and I apologize in advance. Please re-direct me if necessary.

A few weeks ago I received the new HR-34 and the THR-22 TiVo unit and was installing them along with an HR-24 that is currently connected. All units are located in the same media room. This is where my problems with DTV began. Also, I am aware that the THR-22 will not work on my whole home network.
Installers have been to our house 4 times now and neither DTV tech support nor the installers seem to agree on what is the appropriate wiring/set-up for the system. I’m a sound and lighting engineer by profession and have a fairly good grasp on DTV wiring- until SWiM 16. I’m hoping after posting what they have set up you can offer advice as to whether the units are wired appropriately.

After the third attempt to install they have finally left it in this configuration: A Slimline 3 with 4 RG6 cables feeding the two 13V & 18V inputs on the SWiM16. The HR34 is directly wired from port 9-16. Port 1-8 feeds a 4 way splitter. The HR-24 is on output #1, an RG6 coax back feeding Ethernet from a DeCa adapter located in the media room is on output #2 and another RG6 back feeding power into output #3. Output #4 is not used and is not terminated. The THR-22 is fed signal from the IRD port on the power adapter instead of from the 4 way splitter. The HR-24 and HR-34 are getting internet thru the DeCa. A separate RJ45 feeds internet to the THR-22.
The HR-24 and HR-34 appear to be fine now, but the THR-22 truncates recordings and acts oddly. Originally they had wired the power adapter to power the LNB’s thru an old RG6 that was attached to the power port in between the SWiM 1-8 and SWiM 9-16 ports. When the THR-22 kept searching for signal they changed the power adapter from the power port on the SWiM16 to the port on the splitter and then simultaneously fed the THR-22 from the IRD port on the power adapter. Needless to say with the “F” barrels, splitters and sloppy wiring I’m not overly pleased. The installers are courteous and professional but appear to be in a little over their heads.

Also we were told by tech support that the HR-34 cannot have any other receivers connected to the same port (although it only needed 5 streams) because it didn’t like having a splitter feeding it ???) and that you cannot have two HR-34’s in the same room on the SWiM16 system. Currently the TiVo unit still cuts off recordings and even if I record two episodes on the same channel back to back it’s missing 10-15 seconds on the end and beginning of each episode (I checked the HR-24 and HR-34 record properly). Also having lots of freezes where programming stalls and then jumps ahead to real time. I was also told that there will be new dishes with a SWiM24 built in- is this something imminent or purely in the design stage?
Really sorry for the length- any advice and tech info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks so much!
 

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There are some things here that don't make sense.

The SWiM-16 has two outputs, that support 8 tuners each.
Power to the SWiM-16 can be from either the SWM #1, or the PWR connectors.
Since the HR34 does use/have 5 tuners, you can't connect two of them to the same output [10 tuners :eek2:].
You should be able to have either of the other DVRs on the same output, but why not leave the HR34 on one output and connect the other two to the other output?
Does the THR-22 have a bandstop filter connected?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks for the quick response!

It is getting power thru SWiM #1 then, as that has the 4 way splitter they attached.

I understand that the SWiM ports support 8 tuners each, which was why I questioned not being able to simply have an one HR-34 on each of the SWiM ports.

The HR-34 is on one output (SWiM 2). The splitter with the HR-24, Power, and DeCa feed are on the other (SWiM 1). The THR-22 is feed RG6 from the IRD port- no filters, B band etc. Internet to the THR-22 from a separate RJ45 ethernet cable.
 

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We have DirecTiVos old school on SD and the programs begin about five seconds early, which is great, but they end about five seconds early. Maybe it is a TiVo thing along with DTV guide data. Way back when DTV put out guide data that was not compatible with TiVo running 6.2a the only version that would allow hacked MRV at the time. That is when we went to cable. Seems at least partly fixed now when we had to go back to DTV for our full time travel in the RV. Maybe someone can help out over on the THR threads. Might be a more universal problem. Does your TiVo offer the option to extend the program? Perhaps that would be an interim fix.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Yes I can extend the recordings which is my current work around. I'm really trying to determine if this is a software problem or something more related to the installation or the separate internet feed.
 

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Showpro said:
Thanks for the quick response!

It is getting power thru SWiM #1 then, as that has the 4 way splitter they attached.

I understand that the SWiM ports support 8 tuners each, which was why I questioned not being able to simply have an one HR-34 on each of the SWiM ports.

The HR-34 is on one output (SWiM 2). The splitter with the HR-24, Power, and DeCa feed are on the other (SWiM 1). The THR-22 is feed RG6 from the IRD port- no filters, B band etc. Internet to the THR-22 from a separate RJ45 ethernet cable.
Right now, the only thing I see as an issue is the DECA signal is "hitting" the THR22 SAT tuner, which it shouldn't.
While the THR22 can't work with MRV, it should either have a bandstop filter or have a white DECA connected to block the DECA from the tuner. "I think" [not having the THR22] it will use the BB DECA for internet access [instead of the RJ45 cable] by connecting the DECA to the RJ45 port of the THR22. The THR22 is "merely" a HR22 hardware [which works with DECA] but has the Tivo software.

 

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The Shadow Knows!
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Showpro, I have an HR34 and a THR22 and actually they live on the same "leg" of the SWiM-16 and do so happily. I don't know if there is an issue with the THR22 being on the IRD port of the PI, I couldn't imagine there would be, but what I keep coming back to is that the THR22 keeps searching for signal when connected directly to the SWiM. This is not normal behavior.

By way of diagnostics I would check the signal strengths on the HR24 and then disconnect it, hook up the THR22 and see if the signal strengths are the same. If you get Searching errors on the THR22 when the same line handles the HR24, then something's afoul with the THR22.

I would also check the THR22 and make sure it's set up with the proper dish type, Slimline-3 and SWM enabled. It could be as simple as that. If everything is set up properly and the THR22 is misbehaving off the same cable that successfully handles an HR24, I think it's a hardware issue.
 

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Stuart Sweet said:
Showpro, I have an HR34 and a THR22 and actually they live on the same "leg" of the SWiM-16 and do so happily. I don't know if there is an issue with the THR22 being on the IRD port of the PI, I couldn't imagine there would be, but what I keep coming back to is that the THR22 keeps searching for signal when connected directly to the SWiM. This is not normal behavior.

By way of diagnostics I would check the signal strengths on the HR24 and then disconnect it, hook up the THR22 and see if the signal strengths are the same. If you get Searching errors on the THR22 when the same line handles the HR24, then something's afoul with the THR22.

I would also check the THR22 and make sure it's set up with the proper dish type, Slimline-3 and SWM enabled. It could be as simple as that. If everything is set up properly and the THR22 is misbehaving off the same cable that successfully handles an HR24, I think it's a hardware issue.
Since there are unblocked DECA signals getting to the tuner, these can/will affect the SAT readings.
A DECA signal can be 20 dB above the SAT/SWiM signal, which can be swamping the tuner chip.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Now that makes sense- I thought that since it was receiving internet technically thru two sources it was possibly causing glitches. The installers are coming tomorrow to clean up the wiring and I'll have them install that DeCa filter.

Currently the 4 way splitter is located outside adjacent to the SWim16. Should I have them home run RG6 back to splitter for the THR-22 or is it okay to use that IRD port? What actually is the IRD port? Is there any preference as to whether to power thru SWiM port 1 or the SWiM power port? Finally, am I better off (relative to signal strength and integrity) to have the splitter close to SWiM16 with multiple RG6 runs into house or one RG6 run to house and locate that splitter with the DeCa, Power Adapter and receivers?

Once again thanks for the quick responses!
 

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Showpro said:
Now that makes sense- I thought that since it was receiving internet technically thru two sources it was possibly causing glitches. The installers are coming tomorrow to clean up the wiring and I'll have them install that DeCa filter.

Currently the 4 way splitter is located outside adjacent to the SWim16. Should I have them home run RG6 back to splitter for the THR-22 or is it okay to use that IRD port? What actually is the IRD port? Is there any preference as to whether to power thru SWiM port 1 or the SWiM power port? Finally, am I better off (relative to signal strength and integrity) to have the splitter close to SWiM16 with multiple RG6 runs into house or one RG6 run to house and locate that splitter with the DeCa, Power Adapter and receivers?

Once again thanks for the quick responses!
1) to be "idiot proof" [well kind of at least] I try to keep DC power off the coax to the receivers. [so use the PWR port] I do this so I don't have to think about it when I'm swapping cables around. When you do have DC on a coax, if you make a "boo boo" you'll "smoke" the receiver. :eek2:
2) Where you locate a splitter doesn't matter, because the loss is additive. Coax [loss] and splitter [loss] = splitter and coax.
Locate them where you have the least amount of coax you need, or where it's most convenient.
The IRD port is merely the pass through port of the PI.
This is how my setup is:

 

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veryoldschool said:
Since there are unblocked DECA signals getting to the tuner, these can/will affect the SAT readings.
A DECA signal can be 20 dB above the SAT/SWiM signal, which can be swamping the tuner chip.
Wow, so if I wanted to use my HR34 in one room and my old HR20 in another room I could expect problems?

This stuff is pretty complicated.
 

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flipptyfloppity said:
Wow, so if I wanted to use my HR34 in one room and my old HR20 in another room I could expect problems?

This stuff is pretty complicated.
If you do that and you're using MRV with a DECA module, no problem. That goes inline on the coax and splits out the network stuff to the ethernet cable.

If you're NOT using MRV, just stick a bandstop filter in the line at the HR20. That will filter out any DECA traffic.
 

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flipptyfloppity said:
Wow, so if I wanted to use my HR34 in one room and my old HR20 in another room I could expect problems?

This stuff is pretty complicated.
If you put a DECA on it, or a BSF no, but if you don't "then" you need to have a fair amount of loss between the DECAs and the non filtered HR20.
 

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Showpro said:
Now that makes sense- I thought that since it was receiving internet technically thru two sources it was possibly causing glitches. The installers are coming tomorrow to clean up the wiring and I'll have them install that DeCa filter.

Currently the 4 way splitter is located outside adjacent to the SWim16. Should I have them home run RG6 back to splitter for the THR-22 or is it okay to use that IRD port? What actually is the IRD port? Is there any preference as to whether to power thru SWiM port 1 or the SWiM power port? Finally, am I better off (relative to signal strength and integrity) to have the splitter close to SWiM16 with multiple RG6 runs into house or one RG6 run to house and locate that splitter with the DeCa, Power Adapter and receivers?

Once again thanks for the quick responses!
"Another thing" that comes to mind is sheltering all the connectors you can from the weather. Rain will creep into all of them and over time cause problems.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Well DTV is sending out two supervisors to look over the install and re-wire. Thanks for the weather proofing info- they have the SWiM16 unprotected with the 4 way splitter dangling from it. I'll let everyone know how it goes. Thanks.
 

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Hey VOS-

Using your setup above (mine is similar) as an example, and trying to also "idiot proof" to avoid "smoking" a reciever, would it be possible to have the PI on it's own coax running to the SWiM(that's the 4 way green splitter, right?) port that takes the power (port 1, IIRC). Then from the other 3 ports, run my coax to my boxes?

I currently have 3 HR2x's, and I am considering getting an H25 for the bedroom. Currently, the PI is run "inline" with the coax to my HR24 in the living room. The PI is behind our entertainment center, and causes the EC to stick out from the wall a good 4 inches. So I would like to move the PI to my basement (where I have several "empty" coax runs), and I would also like to prevent the possibility of "smoking" a receiver. So, to get to my point: Does taking the PI "out of line" from my receiver and giving it its own "dedicated" coax to port 1 eliminate that possibility, and will everything still work?
 

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mrdobolina said:
Hey VOS-

Using your setup above (mine is similar) as an example, and trying to also "idiot proof" to avoid "smoking" a reciever, would it be possible to have the PI on it's own coax running to the SWiM(that's the 4 way green splitter, right?) port that takes the power (port 1, IIRC). Then from the other 3 ports, run my coax to my boxes?

I currently have 3 HR2x's, and I am considering getting an H25 for the bedroom. Currently, the PI is run "inline" with the coax to my HR24 in the living room. The PI is behind our entertainment center, and causes the EC to stick out from the wall a good 4 inches. So I would like to move the PI to my basement (where I have several "empty" coax runs), and I would also like to prevent the possibility of "smoking" a receiver. So, to get to my point: Does taking the PI "out of line" from my receiver and giving it its own "dedicated" coax to port 1 eliminate that possibility, and will everything still work?
That would work. Remember to use a termination on the IRD port, since it still has RF there.
I try to keep my splitter size down to the minimum size needed for my receivers. Using larger splitters, than needed, is just adding more loss for no gain [usefulness].
 

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The Shadow Knows!
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VOS is right there. With his help I eliminated several splitters and improved my performance and stability greatly.
 

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veryoldschool said:
Remember to use a termination on the IRD port, since it still has RF there.
Do you mean terminate "the other side" of the PI/the female coax connecter that currently goes to my receiver? Otherwise, I'm not sure I know what you mean.

Thanks for the great knowledge you and everyone here has!
 
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