[Blitz68]

DTV's boxes are as good or better than Tivo, they are just working out the kinks.

Remember people these things are NEW. When they were delaying the launch of the product to reduce the amount of bugs people were complaining that it was not out yet.

Now that it is out people are complaining that it is out and has some bugs.

The one thing I have noticed in here is most of you people do not have patience, whether it is when is the HR20 coming out, when a new update is coming out, when OTA will be enabled.

If they released the update to enable the OTA and there were problems with it you would be *****ing about that.

You cry for the world and when you get it you complain about it and will not be patient enough for things to workout.

I am sure when Tivo first came out there were bugs and problems and guess what. They eventually got fixed. So do us all a favor and work to help find the problems not ***** about the problems.

Also, the last time I checked DTV was not holding a gun to your head. If Dish is beter than go to Dish. If cable is better than go to cable.

Don't just sit here and ***** about how bad things are. Try and help by stating issues you are finding/having.

Stupid post's like "this thing is crap" or "what a piece of junk" does not solve anything. It just shows you are a whinner and like to ***** because someone pissed in your Cheerios or something.

 

[geaux1]

Don't just sit here and ***** about how bad things are. Try and help by stating issues you are finding/having.

Stupid post's like "this thing is crap" or "what a piece of junk" does not solve anything. It just shows you are a whinner and like to ***** because someone pissed in your Cheerios or something.

This is just typical of what I mean, what does this mean? Since when does a consumer become a "whiner" when they complain about bad service or a crap product? This post just does not pass the smell test of common sense.

Of course this crappy box would be better than Tivo if it worked, just like a warp speed starship would be better than a space shuttle, so what? Nice concept.

 

[jerkieman]

How would you feel if this was a car, and the brakes didn't work ? Would it be whining to complain about that ? It's a video recorder that doesn't record correctly.

 

[byron]

How would you feel if this was a car, and the brakes didn't work ? Would it be whining to complain about that ? It's a video recorder that doesn't record correctly.

i'm sure there are more than a handful of people who would happily buy your unit from you.

 

[hasan]

Don't just sit here and ***** about how bad things are. Try and help by stating issues you are finding/having.

Stupid post's like "this thing is crap" or "what a piece of junk" does not solve anything. It just shows you are a whinner and like to ***** because someone pissed in your Cheerios or something.

This is just typical of what I mean, what does this mean? Since when does a consumer become a "whiner" when they complain about bad service or a crap product? This post just does not pass the smell test of common sense.

Of course this crappy box would be better than Tivo if it worked, just like a warp speed starship would be better than a space shuttle, so what? Nice concept.

The issue (even for the moderators) is not WHAT one complains about (or advocates for, for that matter), but HOW one complains.

Posts designed (or that have the obvious potential) to rub salt in the wounds of those having trouble, or posts that are designed (or have the obvious potential) to aggravate people who are having great success with the HR20, are the REAL ISSUE.

Civility, objectivity and the absence of loaded words or comments should characterize the posts in these forums. The fact that, at times they don't, is shameful. I've seen the excuses, and I don't buy them (from either camp). Just because you are or are not having problems doesn't justify emotional rants, or baiting. As soon as you "give yourself the right to be pissed or annoyed at anyone (or anything for that matter)", what follows is bad behavior. Count on it....snide remarks, put-downs, bad language, insults, etc. all because "you have the right". We should be far more concerned about our responsibility to behave like a sentient beings than our right to vent or behave anyway we damn well please.

I've seen the moderators tolerate if not justify the anger and snottiness displayed. I disagree with them on this issue. You get what you permit.

On one extreme we get "POS", on the other side we get "Mine's perfect, you must be idiot", both of which are equally reprehensible. What should we be doing:

Test > Report/Feedback> Wait > Retest
Test > Report/Feedback > Wait > Retest

Emotionally loaded opinions about what should or shouldn't be happening, what D* should or shouldn't be doing, service reps, etc. serve no purpose whatsoever, except to indulge ourselves. God knows, we are a self-indulgent and impatient creation!

If the goal is to get the HR20 right, and to get the most out of our experiences with it, we need to focus our energies and attention on the issues and drop the self-righteous satisfaction and self-indulgent anger and STICK TO OUR KNITTING.

A very wise person once said,

"If you have no shame, do whatever you like." Good advice, that.

Now, it's up to us.

 

[jerkieman]

i'm sure there are more than a handful of people who would happily buy your unit from you.

You don't get my point. I do believe the product will get better, so I'm not looking to sell it, but I don't think the product will get better if people who complain about features its missing / bugs in the product are labeled whiners.

I also don't believe it should have been released in its present form. I work in technology, so I don't mind being part of a Beta, that's if I know I'm going to be in a beta beforehand. I feel like the HR20 is still beta and not production ready. I feel bad for the people who bought the product who don't know about this message board, the regular guy/family who knows nothing about technology, and just wants to record Sunday NFL ticket or Oprah for his wife. And wife gets pissed when she can't watch Oprah because the HR20 didn't tape it.

 

[tstarn]

DTV's boxes are as good or better than Tivo, they are just working out the kinks.

Remember people these things are NEW. When they were delaying the launch of the product to reduce the amount of bugs people were complaining that it was not out yet.

Now that it is out people are complaining that it is out and has some bugs.

The one thing I have noticed in here is most of you people do not have patience, whether it is when is the HR20 coming out, when a new update is coming out, when OTA will be enabled.

If they released the update to enable the OTA and there were problems with it you would be *****ing about that.

You cry for the world and when you get it you complain about it and will not be patient enough for things to workout.

I am sure when Tivo first came out there were bugs and problems and guess what. They eventually got fixed. So do us all a favor and work to help find the problems not ***** about the problems.

Also, the last time I checked DTV was not holding a gun to your head. If Dish is beter than go to Dish. If cable is better than go to cable.

Don't just sit here and ***** about how bad things are. Try and help by stating issues you are finding/having.

Stupid post's like "this thing is crap" or "what a piece of junk" does not solve anything. It just shows you are a whinner and like to ***** because someone pissed in your Cheerios or something.

I can't even believe this thread is still here. Enough with the Department of Redundancy Dept., to borrow from an old Firesign Theater bit (dating myself, I know).

No one put a gun to your head to come to this forum, either. But here you are, adding nothing to the mix with this ridiculous post. I vote we ban all "instructional" threads/posts that purport to tell others what they should say/think one way or the other about the HR20?

If you don't like *****ing, don't read the post. Aren't you the person who once posted "My HR20 works perfectly. It's a piece of art."? And more than once? Where is the "value" in that post? You can't have it both ways.

 

[DStern]

Ok - This post finally got me out of lurking...

DTV's boxes are as good or better than Tivo, they are just working out the kinks.

Remember people these things are NEW.

The box would be as good or better than Tivo if BASIC FUNCTIONALITY worked. Until this thing can record MPeg4 shows and play them back reliably I could really care about all the cool new features that work.

If they released the update to enable the OTA and there were problems with it you would be *****ing about that.

Yup I would - Why? Because these things are not cheap and I did not pay to be a tester.

I am sure when Tivo first came out there were bugs and problems and guess what. They eventually got fixed. So do us all a favor and work to help find the problems not ***** about the problems.

Guess what - You are wrong - I was a beta tester of the HD Tivo for 60 days before launch - the thing was rock solid. It is sad that the HR20 does not work as well as the HD Tivo did during beta.

Don't just sit here and ***** about how bad things are. Try and help by stating issues you are finding/having.

Here is a bug - I record an MPEG4 local show and when I play it back it breaks up. I am sick of hearing that this must be an encoding problem and not the box. If I watch it live it works, if I watch it recorded it breaks up. There are a ton of reports on this board of this same basic bug - since launch.

The way that people apologize for this product on the board really makes me wonder how many are on the DTV payroll. No less than three people in my office have this box, and all three of us the same problems.

i'm sure there are more than a handful of people who would happily buy your unit from you.

Make me an offer, get me a payment and I'll ship it out. I'll get another one for next falls TV & NFL season - Perhaps by then it will work...

Dave

 

[byron]

Make me an offer, get me a payment and I'll ship it out. I'll get another one for next falls TV & NFL season - Perhaps by then it will work...

Dave

i didn't say that i wanted to buy it, i already have one.... i was just saying there are always people crawling around her saying they want one and can't get one... so it would be very easy to sell.

 

[tstarn]

The issue (even for the moderators) is not WHAT one complains about (or advocates for, for that matter), but HOW one complains.

Posts designed (or that have the obvious potential) to rub salt in the wounds of those having trouble, or posts that are designed (or have the obvious potential) to aggravate people who are having great success with the HR20, are the REAL ISSUE.

Civility, objectivity and the absence of loaded words or comments should characterize the posts in these forums. The fact that, at times they don't, is shameful. I've seen the excuses, and I don't buy them (from either camp). Just because you are or are not having problems doesn't justify emotional rants, or baiting. As soon as you "give yourself the right to be pissed or annoyed at anyone (or anything for that matter)", what follows is bad behavior. Count on it....snide remarks, put-downs, bad language, insults, etc. all because "you have the right". We should be far more concerned about our responsibility to behave like a sentient beings than our right to vent or behave anyway we damn well please.

I've seen the moderators tolerate if not justify the anger and snottiness displayed. I disagree with them on this issue. You get what you permit.

On one extreme we get "POS", on the other side we get "Mine's perfect, you must be idiot", both of which are equally reprehensible. What should we be doing:

Test > Report/Feedback> Wait > Retest
Test > Report/Feedback > Wait > Retest

Emotionally loaded opinions about what should or shouldn't be happening, what D* should or shouldn't be doing, service reps, etc. serve no purpose whatsoever, except to indulge ourselves. God knows, we are a self-indulgent and impatient creation!

If the goal is to get the HR20 right, and to get the most out of our experiences with it, we need to focus our energies and attention on the issues and drop the self-righteous satisfaction and self-indulgent anger and STICK TO OUR KNITTING.

A very wise person once said,

"If you have no shame, do whatever you like." Good advice, that.

Now, it's up to us.

Your logic is flawed, Hasan. People who post just to complain about the HR20 are hardly doing it to "aggravate" those whose boxes are working. They are doing it to vent their frustration, and hope D* gets wind of their discontent via Earl and the others who have "ties" to D* (and say D* reads this forum).

The people who post to "rub salt in the wounds" (like this OP) are doing it specifically to insult/criticize those having problems, and often those posts are in the form of a personal attack, not a general one meant to show support for D* and the HR20.

I know you've said dozens of times on here that your HR20 works fine, but you don't have MPEG4s yet. And you dread the day you get them. At least that's what you've said. If you get them and your HR20 all of a sudden stops working so well, and that unreliability drags on for 3-4 months, are you going to show that remarkable patience you have shown so far (and why not, your HR20 has been working). You no doubt will. But not everyone has your remarkable patience.

Sure, we all want the HR20 to work. We want people to report their issues, tips, tricks and workarounds. But again, the "reprehensible" personal attacks typically start when someone vents a little emotion, a quite human trait in all cultures/societies, and all of a sudden they are met with the "get over it, crybaby" post (in a variety of wordings).

This debate is never really doing to end, as long as the HR20 isn't working for the vast majority of users. And as I have said for the past few weeks, mine is working at 99 percent, though I haven't received the latest download.

 

[pgiralt]

You say the DTV boxes are as good or better than Tivo, but I have yet to see it. I kept reading that the HR20 was supposed to be so much faster than the Tivo - it is not. It is far slower in almost every way. Moving through the guide is painful.

I agree that the DTV box probably has the POTENTIAL to be better than Tivo, but to say it is better today is not fair.

I have only had an HR20 for a week and so far my experience has been relatively positive. I've had to reset it once because it wanted to pretend that I only had 1 tuner because it wouldn't let me record two shows at the same time. That was fairly minor and I can live with this as a 'new product kink'. I've had some video breakups and audio dropouts, but nothing too bad that it ruined my viewing experience.

However if I were one of the people on this forum who has had missing recordings or the whole box locking up, I'd be pretty upset. Neither of my TiVos (one 6 years old, the other 4 years old) have EVER missed a recording and have NEVER locked up. If a DVR does not record and play back shows reliably, I'd probably be calling it a POS as well.

That being said, I completely agree that posts saying "this thing sucks", etc... are not helpful. Posts that report specific issues with as much detail as possible in the hopes that D* can reproduce the problem and fix it.

The same applies with OTA - everyone who bought the HR20 knew OTA was not there and would be coming soon. Posts every 2 hours asking 'When is OTA going to be enabled' won't get it enabled any quicker. I could technically complain because when I called D* to get the HR20, they said OTA would be available "at the end of the month" and that was the beginning of October, so D* made a commitment they didn't keep - I should be upset, but I'd rather them iron out the kinks and release something that works instead of push out OTA in a half-working condition.

 

[Earl Bonovich]

The issue (even for the moderators) is not WHAT one complains about (or advocates for, for that matter), but HOW one complains.

That is 100% the issue... CONDUCT is what we try to MODERATE here... not CONTENT.

Yes, some CONTENT has to be removed, or stoped (like this thread), but that almost always due to CONDUCT issues.

ALL THE COMPLAINERS and ALL THE CHEERLEADERS are welcome in the forum. But "these" types of posts are not necessary.

Look what those other threads have turned into (such as "Don't Buy It", "It is a worthless piece of", "Good Bye"), ultimately they get back on track to discussing WHY that person felt that way, and even some of them calmed down and kept their HR20.

So the point of this is.... This is an example of the OTHER side of spectrum, of posts I really don't want to see here in the forum.

Thus.... Thread Closed