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UHD (4K)

20K views 80 replies 24 participants last post by  jimmie57 
#1 ·
Anything I should know as to how my new 4K UHD will perform on my dish account ?? -- I assume everything will works as it does now with my present TV

Thanks -- George
 
#3 ·
I believe I read that Dish has plans for UHD in the next year or two but no details. Probably will begin with on-demand movies. Comcast and others are talking about rolling out UHD so Dish will have to do it to stay competitive. I bought a UHD TV earlier this year and it works fine with Dish or any other program source.
 
#4 ·
DISH's plan is to release a 4K Joey to work with the Hopper system. If all goes well they will at least have a path to get 4K to a TV. If DISH follows what they have done for 1080p and 3D, they will start with VOD and see how the market moves. Currently DISH offers 1080p and 3D through VOD (predownloaded via satellite or requested via the Internet).
 
#7 ·
I suspect that Dish and others will wait until the new UHD standards are in place. Scott Wilkinson of AVS forums has high praise for the high dynamic range and improved color gamut that the standards will bring - more so than the increased number of pixels.
 
#9 ·
georgewells said:
Harsh - I read your reply about the 4K Joey - Are they doing anything about the Hopper/Sling since that is what my 4K TV will use not the Joey ?
There doesn't seem to be any indication at this time. The heads up usually comes in the form of a new FCC device ID.
 
#13 ·
patmurphey said:
Not the same as native 4k, but the picture is upconverted with smoothing and interpolation algorithms creating a better viewing experience with Dish's 1080i output.
do you believe in AI of the "smoothing and interpolation" in TV's FW? Or stay on realistic opininion - the robot cannot make better every very different kind of pictures, talking heads perhaps... imagine a picture of tropical forest with many tiny items, panning and a lot of flying colorful birds, at ground level - a cople dosen chimpanzee jumping on braches...or a blast of high rise in a thriller with thousands pieces crossing sky... you should know variety of pictures... it's impossible create SW algos to process HD to 4k as you wish.
 
#15 ·
Up-converting might be fancily-named and have a lot of coding behind it... but at the end of the day, it's a computer attempting to "guess" based on an algorithm what pixels might be there IF that was the native resolution. Up-converting can't find info that isn't there.

Up-converting really exists to be something a tad smarter than just using pixel-doubling to fill the higher-resolution screen and in lieu of displaying native resolution and using half the screen... which would be the other alternatives.

I am actually with P Smith on this one. Up-converting is a necessary "evil" of sorts so that lower resolutions can be viewed on a higher-resolution screen but it doesn't add any meaningful resolution, because it can't.
 
#16 ·
inkahauts said:
Did you forget what up converting means?
Not at all, but I would argue that upconverting is only part of what happens.

We know what simple upconverting looks like with low resolution SD converted to HD and how its quality can vary widely from one model TV (or STB) to the next. Some TVs do little more than pixel doubling while others put a great deal of effort into full-on image processing with motion compensation and edge detection. Unfortunately that assumes that the TV is doing all of the conversion. If an STB is involved, a good portion of the cues used may be destroyed before the TV gets to employ them.
 
#18 ·
That's hilarious. And total bs if that's what they say. Do you have a link? The reality is all these displays are fixed pixel displays anymore. Which means all signals have to be converted and scaled to 4k on a 4k TV. It's not something they can just not do.
 
#19 ·
When I was researching my 4K purchase in December I asked several manufacturers about upconverting. All stated that they do not necessarily upconvert to 4K but do improve picture quality as much as possible. IOW, you might go from 480p or 720p to 1080p quality but don't expect 4K quality. Also, some only upconverted from the HDMI inputs.
 
#20 ·
#21 ·
Pure bs. Sure not all are created equal but all scale. They physically have to or a source or 1080 would only cover half the screen.

Advanced scaling where it guesses better colors and such many don't but just scaling to fit the screen they all do. It's not an option.

That's as false an advertising as I have EVER seen!
 
#22 ·
BillJ said:
When I was researching my 4K purchase in December I asked several manufacturers about upconverting. All stated that they do not necessarily upconvert to 4K but do improve picture quality as much as possible. IOW, you might go from 480p or 720p to 1080p quality but don't expect 4K quality. Also, some only upconverted from the HDMI inputs.
You can't make a 1080 signal a 4k signal picture quality.
 
#23 ·
inkahauts said:
Pure bs. Sure not all are created equal but all scale. They physically have to or a source or 1080 would only cover half the screen.

Advanced scaling where it guesses better colors and such many don't but just scaling to fit the screen they all do. It's not an option.

That's as false an advertising as I have EVER seen!
Here's another link to the 4K UHDTV I bought from Best Buy,this link is from the manufacturer: http://www.vizio.com/tvs/mseries/m55c2.html
 
#24 ·
As already said... pure marketing spin and borderline lies... you can't create resolution from nothing. Some upscaling is better than others... but it's all "guesswork" by the computer really. You can't take 1080p and make a 2160p resolution picture that has the same level of detail as a native 2160p picture would have. You just can't.

The simplest form of upscaling, as noted, is simply doubling the pixels to fill the larger screen. At a minimum ALL 4K/UHD TVs would have to do this because if not, they would be displaying 1080p images in only a quarter of the screen! So some chipsets have some "smarter" than just doubling the pixels to attempt to guess... and the upscaling might look better to some than the same 1080p source on an HDTV... but bottom line, it's nowhere close to 4K/UHD after the upscaling.

We went through all this with Blu-ray players that upscaled DVD content... or HD receivers that upscale SD channels... there is no magic way to make more detail where there is none.
 
#25 ·
Stewart Vernon said:
As already said... pure marketing spin and borderline lies... you can't create resolution from nothing. Some upscaling is better than others... but it's all "guesswork" by the computer really. You can't take 1080p and make a 2160p resolution picture that has the same level of detail as a native 2160p picture would have. You just can't.

The simplest form of upscaling, as noted, is simply doubling the pixels to fill the larger screen. At a minimum ALL 4K/UHD TVs would have to do this because if not, they would be displaying 1080p images in only a quarter of the screen! So some chipsets have some "smarter" than just doubling the pixels to attempt to guess... and the upscaling might look better to some than the same 1080p source on an HDTV... but bottom line, it's nowhere close to 4K/UHD after the upscaling.

We went through all this with Blu-ray players that upscaled DVD content... or HD receivers that upscale SD channels... there is no magic way to make more detail where there is none.
I believe that all of you are correct that what I see is not True 4K UHD,but on the other side I know that where I live I will never have enough internet speed to stream 4K UHD anyways,I also know that Dish will probably never have their regular channels in 1080p simply because of bandwith restrictions not to mention what the cost would be for Dish to try and bring down True 4K UHD from their satellites since that would be(I'm guessing here) twice the bandwith of a 1080p signal.
So for me it's fake 4K UHD?I can live with that setup mainly because I have all my signals OTA&Satellite coming in my Dish receiver and being fake upconverted to 1080i,then running them through HDMI to my HDMI input into my fake 4K Vizio M55-C2 UHDTV upconversion.
In all honesty what ever they did to make this fake 4K UHD upconversion,it actually is an awesome picture to watch and after watching 1080i and 1080p for 4 years,this is a better picture even if it's a fake 4K UHD.
 
#26 ·
BillJ said:
Also, some only upconverted from the HDMI inputs.
There are things that you just can't ask of people who are selling something because they're not going to give you the whole story. They are always going to pick their own lowest bar and tell you that there are products from other vendors that don't reach that bar.

With many televisions, unless you set the TV for computer mode, they employ underscan and that requires thoughtful scaling at any resolution. Even if you have a 1080p panel, you're only seeing around 90% of the image so pixel doubling is not enough. I found this out the hard way recently when someone at work decided it would be okay to plug the computer into a port other than the one marked "PC" and I couldn't see the edges of the desktop. Fortunately, the TV had a mode that turned off underscan on the other ports and I was able to set it for 1:1.

Purists may go on and on about the glories of 1:1 and OAR, but many TVs aren't set up for it.
 
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