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Hall Of Fame
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
289 FREE ADDED TO Tp 2 on EchoStar 8 at 110w

298 FREE, REMOVED FROM Tp 2 on EchoStar 8 at 110w

9417 HTVN, Holistic Television Network REMOVED FROM Tp 29 on EchoStar 3 at 61.5w

9417 HTVN, Holistic Television Network REMOVED FROM Tp 19 on EchoStar 1 at 148w

577 PFC became available at 61.5 and 148.
 

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Wasn't that the excersize channel? I watched a little when it first came on and all I remember is stretching and gyrating.
 

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Hall Of Fame
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TNGTony said:
Another PI channel bites the dust! Good Riddance! :)
I like PI channels in general, but I'm not sad to see HTVN gone.

Two complaints with the channel:

1) What was it really? Exercise? Cooking? New age health? Disguised informercials? I never figured out a theme for it, partly because ...

2) It never had program listings. No web site. No listing services that I noticed anywhere. Not even in the on-screen program guide. Maybe it's an irrational prejudice, but in the age of hundreds of channels, I need to know what's supposed to be on before I'm lured to change to that channel.

Seems like this would be a great time to pitch a new PI channel idea to E*. Where do you get the application form? :D
 

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Godfather
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FTA Michael said:
I like PI channels in general, but I'm not sad to see HTVN gone.

Two complaints with the channel:

1) What was it really? Exercise? Cooking? New age health? Disguised informercials? I never figured out a theme for it, partly because ...

2) It never had program listings. No web site. No listing services that I noticed anywhere. Not even in the on-screen program guide. Maybe it's an irrational prejudice, but in the age of hundreds of channels, I need to know what's supposed to be on before I'm lured to change to that channel.

Seems like this would be a great time to pitch a new PI channel idea to E*. Where do you get the application form? :D
The PI rules are *very interesting* -- you actually want them, but you want the channels to be okay...clearly a lot of the PI seems to have commercials (paid ones) or they are selling blocks of time to other show producers.. I won't name names....

Great read: http://www.mediaaccess.org/news/0528 LA Times.pdf

General application: http://www.dishnetwork.com/downloads/pdf/aboutus/DISH_BroadcastInfo.pdf

Rasheed
 

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47 USC 335 - Direct broadcast satellite service obligations
(b) Carriage obligations for noncommercial, educational, and informational programming
(1) Channel capacity required
The Commission shall require, as a condition of any provision, initial authorization, or authorization renewal for a provider of direct broadcast satellite service providing video programming, that the provider of such service reserve a portion of its channel capacity, equal to not less than 4 percent nor more than 7 percent, exclusively for noncommercial programming of an educational or informational nature.

(2) Use of unused channel capacity
A provider of such service may utilize for any purpose any unused channel capacity required to be reserved under this subsection pending the actual use of such channel capacity for noncommercial programming of an educational or informational nature.

(3) Prices, terms, and conditions; editorial control
A provider of direct broadcast satellite service shall meet the requirements of this subsection by making channel capacity available to national educational programming suppliers, upon reasonable prices, terms, and conditions, as determined by the Commission under paragraph(4). The provider of direct broadcast satellite service shall not exercise any editorial control over any video programming provided pursuant to this subsection.

(4) Limitations
In determining reasonable prices under paragraph (3) -
(A) the Commission shall take into account the nonprofit character of the programming provider and any Federal funds used to support such programming;

(B) the Commission shall not permit such prices to exceed, for any channel made available under this subsection, 50 percent of the total direct costs of making such channel available; and

(C) in the calculation of total direct costs, the Commission shall exclude -
(i) marketing costs, general administrative costs, and similar overhead costs of the provider of direct broadcast satellite service; and

(ii) the revenue that such provider might have obtained by making such channel available to a commercial provider of video programming.​
(5) Definitions
For purposes of this subsection -
(A) The term ''provider of direct broadcast satellite service'' means -
(i) a licensee for a Ku-band satellite system under part 100 of title 47 of the Code of Federal Regulations; or

(ii) any distributor who controls a minimum number of channels (as specified by Commission regulation) using a Ku-band fixed service satellite system for the provision of video programming directly to the home and licensed under part 25 of title 47 of the Code of Federal Regulations.​
(B) The term ''national educational programming supplier'' includes any qualified noncommercial educational television station, other public telecommunications entities, and public or private educational institutions.​
 

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Notes: Capacity (1) is a moving target. It isn't 4-7% of the 3000+ channels in the system, it is PER ORBITAL LOCATION based on the number of channels offered. At 119° E* programs 15 Conus transponders, 5 are used for Spotbeams and 1 is leased to NPS (they will have their own obligations - which will likely be one channel). At 110° E* programs 19 Conus transponders and 10 are used for spotbeams. A straight 12 channels per TP estimate would put 8-12 channels on 119° 10-15 channels on 110°. E* has 8 on 119° (including RFD TV) and 9 on 110° (which has a reduced channel capacity due to several transponders being used for HD).

The wings are another story. E* has not had more than five PIs on the wings at the same time in years. It could be argued that four is enough. (They could have up to 100 channels on 61.5° or 148° before a fifth channel is required.)

Pricing - The NPS deal taught us that an entire transponder can be rented for $150,000 per month --- placing one of 12 channels at $12,500 per month - half that would be $6,250 but E* can charge for the reception and uplink. I would not be suprised if a "reasonable cost" for a PI balanced out around $120,000 per year. That is a lot for a small non-profit.
 

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Legend
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James Long said:
Pricing - The NPS deal taught us that an entire transponder can be rented for $150,000 per month
Which simply means that if I can get Benjamin-Moore or Sherwin-Williams to pony up for having their logo on the bug, I can launch the "Watching Paint Dry" channel at will.

My point is that everything is for sale... everything. The only sticking point is the price.
 

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Hall Of Fame
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A pet store logo on a fish tank channel! :)

A fire place insert contractor on a yule log channel! :)

Cool!

See ya
Tony
 

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The discussion of the rulemaking is here: http://ftp.fcc.gov/Bureaus/Mass_Media/Orders/1998/fcc98307.txt

I could have sworn that somewhere in the mess there was a provision that basically stated that the bandwidth for the PI channel had to be of equal quality to the average channel on they system. IOW, if there are generally 12 channel per transponder, you can't shove 23 PI channels on a transponder and call it a day. The reason I bring this up is that at 61.5 and 129° the average bandwidth per national channels is much much higher than 110/119 because of the number of HD channels.

But I could be way wrong.

See ya
Tony
 

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The quality issue may be deeper in the FCC rules and not in the US Code. Or it may just be common sense. Wait, did I just say E* used common sense?

I wonder ... if E* crammed 23 PIs on a transponder that would make the system capacity 23 * TP which would in turn require more PI channels. Just don't let the FCC count spotbeam capacity multiple times.

Correction to my numbers above: 23 PIs include 10 on 110° (including Doc, Daystar and CCTV-9) and 5 on 61.5°/148° (including KBS World). There were six on the wings until HTVN left. It seems E* is doing fine on 110°.

I wonder about PIs on 129° ... being a Canadian slot do US rules apply? I was suprised that PIs never made it to 105° and 121° (other than KBS World). My reading of the rules would have them as required.
 

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JohnH said:
577 PFC became available at 61.5 and 148.
PFC A LA CARTE
TV GLOBO/PFC
TV GLOBO/RECORD/RBTI/PFC

No price found yet.
 

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Hall Of Fame
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mwgiii said:
Are there any good PI channels out there that aren't carried by Dish?
Lots of Local Pi channels, and probably some national that are good. Dish is not really carrying many of the good ones. They did add some that were more interesting later on, but some of the older ones that they carry are real dogs. Since they are required to carry some it be nice if they picked the more interesting ones. Probably cannot break the agreements with some of them.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
tnsprin said:
Lots of Local Pi channels, and probably some national that are good. Dish is not really carrying many of the good ones. They did add some that were more interesting later on, but some of the older ones that they carry are real dogs. Since they are required to carry some it be nice if they picked the more interesting ones. Probably cannot break the agreements with some of them.
Of course, they would only be carrying National ones and the cost is a bit high for some of the sources to cover sometimes.
 

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TNGTony said:
Another PI channel bites the dust! Good Riddance! :)

See ya
Tony
hey I work with Holistic medicine so this pisses me off, my compounding Pharmacy I work for has been fighting with the FDA trying to shut us down. This was a decent channel. **** synthetic drugs!
 
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