[TNGTony]

I have to say that this last episode of Enterprise was quite good. The problem I had with the episode is "Why Romulans?" We know that the Federationd didn't "see" a Romulan face-to-face until the "The Enemy Below" remake episode on TOS. And to maintain that "History" the Romulans never revealed themselves. Only their ships. And Tankfully those were correctly depicted. But I wonder, how much history was rewritten tonight? I need to put on my Visor, vulcan ears and plastic communicator, sit in my Cpt Picard replica chair and read my deeberrific Okuda ST "canon" Referance books to see!

Live long and...err...........

See ya
Tony

 

[Mike123abc]

Well the only major thing they changed was that romulans had cloaking technology this time. Remember in the first STOS episode cloaking was a new item.

 

[jeffr]

Other then the cloaking technology that Mike123abc pointed out, it seemed to hold fairly true to history didn't it? I mean, they really didn't reveal a whole lot in this episode.

The only other thing I seem to remember (but I could be mistaken since I do not have the documentation that TNGTony has) was that the Romulan language was based on the same root as Vulcan. Wasn't that why Spock was intercepting the transmission in the STOS episode? If that was the case you would have thought T'Pol would have grasped it and they wouldn't have had to rely on Hoshi.

I thought the episode was GREAT. Although I still have to think the crew must be going crazy with so many people out to get them all the time. Even their best friends the vulcans aren't all that friendly.

Anyone know when they are going to get shields? No, don't tell me.

 

[Chris Blount]

I also enjoyed the episode. I remember the TOS episode when the romulans first revealed themselves. All the way through Enterprise last night, I kept saying to myself "They better not appear on the view screen!") Thankfully they didn't so history is still intact.

 

[Mark Lamutt]

I haven't watched it yet, but I'm happy to hear that they didn't completely screw things up again. I was about ready to shoot Rick Berman after watching the "Carbon Creek" epsidode last week! It would have been a fun episode if they hadn't completely thrown all continuity out the window!

 

[TNGTony]

Mark,

I thought the same thing, but it was covered up nicely. "You did ask me to tell you a story..."

So, if it was true, the ONLY two to hear the story thought it was a fabrication and never reported it. The documentation could be hidden in a dark corner of the archives T'Pol talked about.

I thought it was a cheap way out. But it worked. I was, though, yelling at the TV at the end of the show!

If I ever meet Berman, I want to punch him in the mouth! <--for the humor impaired...this is facetious.

See ya
Tony

 

[Mark Lamutt]

Tony,

I'd agree with you if T'Pol hadn't pulled out that damn purse to end the show, signifying that the events actually did happen.

I had so many problems with that episode that I could spend the next 2 hours typing them up, but that'd just be a waste of time I could spend on something more productive and enjoyable. My wife was just sitting there shaking her head at me as I yelled at the tv throughout most of the episode.

 

[razorbackfan]

Like my best friend who works on the show tells me all the time, "sometimes the writers are in a hurry". I suggested for last nights show, when T'Pol heard the Romulans she would look away say something like "damn..." then "we need to get out of here now" and look visibly shaken. Would have been a great moment. The rest of the crew would have a very confused look on their faces. Also, I think if Archer and Merryweather were in a blast, when they were in the docking bay at the end, their EVA suits should be a bit charred instead of looking brand new. Oh well, it's only TV.

 

[Mark Holtz]

Actually, the biggest problem I had with Carbon Creek was with Sputnik. Although it looks nice to have it sail by, more than likely it was spinning like crazy because there was no mechanism to point it in a particular direction. That's why it had four antennas. Also, the purpose of Sputnik was to determine IF they could launch a satellite in orbit.

Damn, where are my satellite books?

As for Vulcans visiting Earth in 1957 (albiet accidentally), it is plausable. Anyone remember the TNG episode First Contact? In that episode, it was stated that the Federation has personnel working undercover in order to learn the culture and make First Contact easier.

 

[Chris Blount]

I agree with Z'Loth. I remember something about the Vulcans spying on us before making first contact. I for one enjoyed the Carbon Creek episode. I don't see how it messed with any Star Trek history. It could have happened. Of course, my memory isn't the greatest. (can you tell I'm baiting Mark )

Actually, I'm enjoying the whole series because it's interesting to see how the writers decide to fill in the blanks between first contact and the Kirk and Spock era. The only thing I see that really bugs me are some of the systems on the ship like the intercoms. I can't believe that it took them a couple of hundred years to develop ways to communicate other than pressing buttons on the walls.

 

[TNGTony]

LOL! When Archer got the call while talking to the nervous Mayweather, I was expecting him to slap his chest! When he stood up to push the com button, I chuckeled to myself... "Wrong series!"

As to Carbon Creek, I liked the episode, and it was covered up nicely. I do want to eventually find out (maybe a passing line in an upcoming movie) about what happened to that last Vulcan that stayed behind. And what did he do on that seventh year cycle?

Back to the Romulans in "Mines"... I've read most of the "canon" litterature on the Romulans and I've found no problems. The only "canon" mention of the romulans before TOS was that they developed warp technology in exchange for cloking technology from the Klingons "a hundred years ago" (TOS). Time line is okay. It's the 2150s and TOS is estimated as taking place in the 2270s. Close enough.

The war between the Federation and the Klingons and the Romulans happened not too long from now. The formation of the Romulan Neutral Zone happens quite a bit later (don't have the exact date here.)

See ya
Tony

 

[Mark Lamutt]

Ok, Chris...I'll take the bait.

Yes, it has been mentioned several times that the Vulcans studied and spied on earth for a long time before first contact happened. But...in every one of those instances except for one book (Strangers From the Sky) the Vulcans were under direct mandate to have no contact at all - to the point that they would blow up their ship to aviod the possibility of being detected. They would not have landed on the planet, period. That's my first BIG problem with the episode. My next BIG problem was the fact that the Vulcans completely abandoned the chain of command after they landed. Even if these 3 weren't military, there was a set command structure in place that they would not have deviated from, period. Third BIG problem - Vulcans have been shown to "exaggerate" the truth to humans and other non-vulcans, but the ONLY instances of vulcans directly lying to other vulcans have been if the one doing the lying was insane or criminal. There were 2 instances of this in this ep, both off the cuff, and both obviously no big deal. Fourth BIG problem - because T'Pol pulled out the purse at the end of the ep, the events obviously happened. This means that there are complete records of the events in the vulcan archives. Which means that T'Pol's great grandmother (or whatever) had to have been caught in the lie that she told the captain of the survey ship. Which means that the vulcan leadership knew that the one vulcan stayed behind. Which means they would have gone and forcibly extracted him. No way in hell they would have allowed him to stay.

 

[David_Levin]

Originally posted by Chris Blount
I can't believe that it took them a couple of hundred years to develop ways to communicate other than pressing buttons on the walls.

:lol: :lol: :lol:
(Thanks, I enjoyed that)
The buttons do add to the ambiance of the pre-generation ship.

All - In - All,

I'm not that hard-core treckie and I guess I just have to not analyze the show too hard (but you're right Mark - the Vulcans are WAY out of character). I am enjoying it.

 

[Mark Lamutt]

I used to be a seriously hard core trekkie, but not so much anymore. I can usually not think too seriously about the show and enjoy it...but Carbon Creekl was just too wrong for me to let go.

 

[cnsf]

Originally posted by Z'Loth

As for Vulcans visiting Earth in 1957 (albiet accidentally), it is plausable. Anyone remember the TNG episode First Contact? In that episode, it was stated that the Federation has personnel working undercover in order to learn the culture and make First Contact easier.

My understanding of the episode was that it was just a story....T'Pol attempting to play a joke. Reminded me of a "can't think of anything, so let's do a holodeck epsiode." Liked it anyway....

As for the Romulan episode, I thought it was right on the money. Per my memory on "Balance of Terror" a) Mark Leonard (Spock's father) was the first Romulan and b) Romulans weren't yet seen. I thought Enterprise stayed pretty true to the history.

If only Berman and Bragga would write and check their history like they used to, no one would be doubting them now.....

 

[Timco]

Has anyone else noted that T'Pol has no problem being touched by humans? If memory serves correct, it's a pretty big deal to be inundated by all those human emotions.

 

[cnsf]

Originally posted by Timco
Has anyone else noted that T'Pol has no problem being touched by humans? If memory serves correct, it's a pretty big deal to be inundated by all those human emotions.

I don't believe touching is an issue for them (they've shaken hands, etc.), it's just being in their presence. The only time it could affect them physically is during a mindmeld which I don't believe is around yet in Enterprise, only the nerve pinch.

I do think this is my ultimate sinking into geekdom btw.....

 

[TNGTony]

The mind meld was explored on Enterprise, (I for get the name of the Ep where they meet up with the rogue Vulcans) but it is obviously not yet accepted Vulcan practice since it was new to T'Pol

See ya
Tony

 

[cnsf]

Originally posted by TNGTony
The mind meld was explored on Enterprise, (I for get the name of the Ep where they meet up with the rogue Vulcans) but it is obviously not yet accepted Vulcan practice since it was new to T'Pol

See ya
Tony

Yup, just what I remembered too.

I can't ever remember a Vulcan shying away from touching a human. Case in point, Spock's parents.....hmmm....maybe Sarek was really a Romulan........