DBSTalk Forum banner
Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 20 of 58 Posts

·
Hall Of Fame
Joined
·
1,262 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've seen the term used in this forum without a clear understanding of the definition of 'HD Lite'. Is that when an HD program is broadcast in 4x3 with bars on the side?:confused:
 

·
622 Tips & Trick Keeper
Joined
·
9,880 Posts

·
Hall Of Fame
Joined
·
3,982 Posts
It's the false assumption that 1080i transmitted a 1080X1280 or 1080X1440 is not High definition.

Step back and watch the hornets.
 

·
Beware the Attack Basset
Joined
·
24,482 Posts
Jim5506 said:
It's the false assumption that 1080i transmitted a 1080X1280 or 1080X1440 is not High definition.
Actually, the false assumption is that different de-facto standards cannot be established for different media. An example might be trying to hold newsprint print quality to that of magazines. It only seems fair not to call what DirecTV offers by the same name that broadcast television offers (as specifically defined by ATSC standards).

HD-Lite also takes into consideration that while the image is being compromised by horizontal pixel averaging, it is further being mushed by reduced bit-rates as compared with broadcast standards. Lossy compression damage goes up exponentially with repeated application.

I would note that we should all be thinking of HDTV in terms of 16:9 instead of your portrait view of 27:32; the "resolution" is discussed in terms of horizontal x vertical.
 

·
Hall Of Fame
Joined
·
1,262 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
harsh said:
I would note that we should all be thinking of HDTV in terms of 16:9 instead of your portrait view of 27:32; the "resolution" is discussed in terms of horizontal x vertical.
So what do we call it when an HD program is broadcast in 4x3 with the 'HD bars' along the side (like you see sometimes on ESPNHD) instead of 16x9?
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
21,658 Posts
dbconsultant said:
So what do we call it when an HD program is broadcast in 4x3 with the 'HD bars' along the side (like you see sometimes on ESPNHD) instead of 16x9?
Not HD. :)

Every once in a while there is an old movie (like on one of the Voom channels) that has been been scanned from original film and the original aspect ratio was 4:3. In that case, the movie is still in HD just not 16:9 widescreen.

But that is usually the exception. Things like your ESPN example are not HD at all... though they are being broadcast at HD resolution, the video inside that signal is not significantly higher resolution than the 480i/p it was originally produced in.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
53,498 Posts
dbconsultant said:
So what do we call it when an HD program is broadcast in 4x3 with the 'HD bars' along the side (like you see sometimes on ESPNHD) instead of 16x9?
Pillarbox.

As for "HD Lite", I define that as "An often derogitory term applied to HD compression that involves using a lower resolution than 1920x1080."
 

·
Icon
Joined
·
749 Posts
Now I'm really confused. Is High Definition defined by what you see? Or, is it defined by the Advanced Television Standards Committee?

--- CHAS
 

·
Hall Of Fame
Joined
·
1,086 Posts
HIPAR said:
Now I'm really confused. Is High Definition defined by what you see? Or, is it defined by the Advanced Television Standards Committee?

--- CHAS
Here are the ATSC standards as they are now. "HD LITE" is an approved standard. Here is the site to the PDF that all can look at that list all the standards. It will list that there are 3 standards 1080 (both of the 3 have subsets for I & P) and 1 for 720p. The chart 7.3 pg 17 gives the comparison chart.

http://www.atsc.org/standards/a81.html
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
21,658 Posts
Bottom line... there are several different standards for HDTV resolutions. Some of these standards permit resolutions that are less detailed than others.

"HD Lite" is a very much unofficial and undefined term which generally is used by people to denote an HD channel's resolution not appearing to be as good to them as another. In fact, "HD Lite" could be a non-standard resolution, or poor compression, or poor OTA signal, or any number of things combining to make the signal appear less pristine than a customer expects.

Essentially, "HD Lite" is a morphing term used to describe general dissatisfaction with reception of HD... and it may or may not be describing a standard/accepted resolution.
 

·
622 Tips & Trick Keeper
Joined
·
9,880 Posts
Yep.. HDMe... That is my take on the term in a nutshell ....
 

·
AllStar
Joined
·
64 Posts
Yep, and if you have a plasma or lcd set that is not 1080p all you can watch is hdlite as anything anyhigher in quality it can not image. You need a set that is 1080i or 1080p for full hd.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
11,498 Posts
My official unofficial definition of HD Lite.

High definition programming that is sent out in one resolution by the content distributor, then lowered down by the programming provider. *Cough* DirecTV *cough*
 

·
Cool Member
Joined
·
25 Posts
James Long said:
Pillarbox.

As for "HD Lite", I define that as "An often derogAtory term applied to HD compression that involves using a lower resolution than 1920x1080."
I define that as "An often ACCURATE term applied to HD compression that involves using a lower resolution....
 

·
Beware the Attack Basset
Joined
·
24,482 Posts
dude2 said:
Yep, and if you have a plasma or lcd set that is not 1080p all you can watch is hdlite as anything anyhigher in quality it can not image. You need a set that is 1080i or 1080p for full hd.
Regardless of the brain damaged resolution of the transmission, the receiver converts it back to one of the ATSC broadcast standards. Most older plasmas and LCDs are displaying a triple (or quadruple) compromised image due to downscaling, recompression, upscaling and finally downscaling again.
 

·
Hall Of Fame
Joined
·
2,294 Posts
Throwing gas on the fire....

It seems to me to be what owners of really big screen TV sets and high priced home theatres call anything they don't like the look of. Myself I don't have $50,000+ to drop on a Home video center. :icon_peac

They'd really be unhappy with the NJN signal I can receive here.... Four channels of digital content and all 4:3 and not very hi-res. :grin:

I find that in general the HD channels off of dish to look fine with a 32"LCD that I am sitting 3 to 4 foot away from. I even use it for my computer monitor now with wireless Keyboard and Mouse and 16' of VGA cable. Do the Dish Channels look the same as the OTA, of course not and they never will. Dish (and DirecTV) are taking the MPEG2 from the stations and compressing it with MPEG4 technology. Anytime you take a compressed source and recompress it there will be a quality loss. Basic Video rule. That's why you try and capture video in a DV format AVI to filter and edit before converting it to DVD format for example.

Cable will have the same problems as they need to compress the signal too. FIOS holds out the promise of better picture quality but whether or not we will ever see it?

The only way the picture won't suffer is if it is passed through untouched. I suspect that is what the purists really want and if we lose half our channels so that the signal can passed unchanged they'll be happy. :sure:

They sound to me as if they don't care how much it costs and if we need a forest of dishes on our roof to get the best signal, well to them thats OK as I see it.

One persons humble opinion after reading HD lite threads on several forums.

Cheers
 

·
Godfather
Joined
·
297 Posts
Well I dont lose any sleep over this stuff but to me the definition of HD Lite is simple.

If a program source is in 1920x1080 but a retransmitter like E*, D* or cable decides to send it out in 1440x1080 or 1280x1080 then thats HD Lite.

If CBS for example were sending out 1440x1080 in the first place then it'd be a different story.

Sure bit rates play a role in PQ also but thats true of any type programming.. SD or HD. The whole premise of HD though is about resolution. So to just decide to whack a good percentage of it out is questionable.
 
1 - 20 of 58 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top