What's best? Letting the TV or the HR21 deal with the resolution?

5216 Views 57 Replies 27 Participants Last post by veryoldschool, Aug 26, 2008

crawdad62

Discussion Starter · Aug 8, 2008

Just curious. I have a Sharp AQUOS and I just wondered is I should set the HR21 to allow all resolutions (480i to 1080i) or let set it to output only 1080i?

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Sharkie_Fan

· #2 · Aug 8, 2008

Bottom line, IMHO... it all boils down to what looks best to you.

I find that I prefer the picture if I send only 1080i to my set, letting the HR20 do whatever it has to do to the picture before it sends it on it's marry way.

I'm not an expert on the math and science of all of it.... I tried sending all resolutions to the TV and letting it do the changes it needed, and I thought everything was just a little better looking with the HR20 sent only 1080i.

eakes

· #3 · Aug 8, 2008

Turn off Native in the HR21 and manually set it to output 1080i. The TV will take it from there. The picture will render faster when changing channels.

cygnusloop

· #4 · Aug 8, 2008

crawdad62 said:
Just curious. I have a Sharp AQUOS and I just wondered is I should set the HR21 to allow all resolutions (480i to 1080i) or let set it to output only 1080i?

You clearly understand the issue. It will come down to whether you prefer the scaler and deinterlacer in your HDTV as compared to the processing the the HR2x.

Personally, I prefer the scaler in my HDTV. I think it does a better job of scaling 720p directly to 1080p. If I had the HR2x set to 1080i only, for 720p programming, the HR would have to interlace and scale it to 1080i, just so the HDTV could then deinterlace it to 1080p. Many will say they can't see a difference. I can. Of course, when the program is native 1080i, it doesn't matter.

To me, it is well worth the small trade-off in the time it takes the HDTV to re-sync to the new resolution. But I don't really channel surf.

Also, I prefer the viewing environment created by my HDTV for 4:3 SD programming. The pillars have a little bit of overscan to hide all the junk in the gutters of the SD frame, and they are much "blacker" than the HR2x's pillar bars.

With native on, and at least one HD and one SD resolution enabled, my HDTV remembers the format settings per resolution, so that all my SD is pillarboxed by the TV, and all HD is full screen.

HTH

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jorossian

· #5 · Aug 8, 2008

cygnusloop said:
You clearly understand the issue. It will come down to whether you prefer the scaler and deinterlacer in your HDTV as compared to the processing the the HR2x.

Personally, I prefer the scaler in my HDTV. I think it does a better job of scaling 720p directly to 1080p. If I had the HR2x set to 1080i only, for 720p programming, the HR would have to interlace and scale it to 1080i, just so the HDTV could then deinterlace it to 1080p. Many will say they can't see a difference. I can. Of course, when the program is native 1080i, it doesn't matter.

To me, it is well worth the small trade-off in the time it takes the HDTV to re-sync to the new resolution. But I don't really channel surf.

Also, I prefer the viewing environment created by my HDTV for 4:3 SD programming. The pillars have a little bit of overscan to hide all the junk in the gutters of the SD frame, and they are much "blacker" than the HR2x's pillar bars.

With native on, and at least one HD and one SD resolution enabled, my HDTV remembers the format settings per resolution, so that all my SD is pillarboxed by the TV, and all HD is full screen.

HTH

I fully agree. Native On is far better for me. Yes the channel surfing is slow, but who channel surfs anymore? The on screen guide or To Do List are far more efficient in finding what you want to watch.

I also love that with native on my TV automatically puts pillar bars on the 4:3 SD stations. Plus if you have your DVR wired to a second SD TV with an RF converter you won't get a double-squeezed picture for SD channels.

What it comes down to is your own viewing preferences, the quality of your TV's scaler vs the Reciever's and what stuff you have hooked to it.

I think some HR-20/21 owners really don't really realize how fortunate we are to have the "Native" feature at all. Most cable DVR's don't have it and most homes I've seen with them assume "stretchovision" is just the norm. Personally I can't stand to watch a stretched program.

bigwad

· #6 · Aug 8, 2008

Is there a way to set the Native ON and only allow the DVR to output 720p and 1080I? The slowness of the channel changing with Native ON doesn't do well with my wife and kids, so I usually leave Native OFF and set at 1080i. Still a great picture, either way.

jorossian

· #7 · Aug 8, 2008

bigwad said:
Is there a way to set the Native ON and only allow the DVR to output 720p and 1080I? The slowness of the channel changing with Native ON doesn't do well with my wife and kids, so I usually leave Native OFF and set at 1080i. Still a great picture, either way.

Sure there is

Just set to "Native On" and change the Supported Resolutions checkboxes to only 720p and 1080i leaving 480i/p unchecked.

You'll still have slow channel surfing though so keep that in mind.

bigwad

· #8 · Aug 8, 2008

Thanks, I'll give it a shot when I get home and see if the channel changing speed is better with just 720p and 1080i checked, versus having them and the 480's checked. Still, the Mpeg4 channels are very nice! Now if I could just get my LOCALS!!!!

cartrivision

· #9 · Aug 8, 2008

jorossian said:
I also love that with native on my TV automatically puts pillar bars on the 4:3 SD stations. Plus if you have your DVR wired to a second SD TV with an RF converter you won't get a double-squeezed picture for SD channels.

That is controlled by selecting the "original format" display with the format button and can be done with native on or off.

seanmcgpa

· #10 · Aug 8, 2008

I have a Sony 70" KDS-R70XBR2 , and find the Sony's native scaler does a better job than the HR-21. So I leave Native On, and live with the delay ...

crawdad62

Discussion Starter · #11 · Aug 8, 2008

Hey thanks all. It's sort of hard to see much difference whether the DVR or the TV does the scaling. I just assume the TV handles it better. It certainly eases channel changes from HD to SD (or vise-a-verse-a) easier and quicker having the DVR outputing one resolution.

So in the end I'm going with 1080i and Native ON. For me that seems to be the best. Again thanks for all the suggestions!

Mike728

· #12 · Aug 8, 2008

I have native set to "On" for only one of my HDTV's. My new Pioneer plasma does a great job at scaling, where my Samsung DLP only likes 720p. If I set it to receive 1080i via HDMI, the picture blacks out intermittently. It does this for any 1080i HDMI source, not just DirecTV. Using the Samsung's built in tuner it has no problem with 1080i, though.

Mike728

· #13 · Aug 8, 2008

crawdad62 said:
So in the end I'm going with 1080i and Native ON.

If you turn all the other resolutions off, I don't think setting native to "On" will have any effect.

Carl Spock

· #14 · Aug 8, 2008

crawdad62 said:
It's sort of hard to see much difference whether the DVR or the TV does the scaling.

You might want to check again in a month or two. By that time you will have become very accustomed to the picture.

If you change your settings after that, you might notice more of a difference. I found this is the case for me, but in a different way. I have a third piece in my system that can take care of the scaling: my Yamaha RX-V1800 receiver. Normally I let my TV do the job; this last week I switched to having the receiver do it. While initially it looked better, with more detail and maybe a deeper black level, it ended up looking like a picture with both the contrast and sharpeness set a little too high. I went back to having my TV do my scaling.

crawdad62

Discussion Starter · #15 · Aug 8, 2008

Mike728 said:
If you turn all the other resolutions off, I don't think setting native to "On" will have any effect.

Doesn't having the Native on keep the original aspect ratio of the program though? Regardless of the resolution?

Carl Spock said:
You might want to check again in a month or two. By that time you will have become very accustomed to the picture.

If you change your settings after that, you might notice more of a difference. I found this is the case for me, but in a different way. I have a third piece in my system that can take care of the scaling: my Yamaha RX-V1800 receiver. Normally I let my TV do the job; this last week I switched to having the receiver do it. While initially it looked better, with more detail and maybe a deeper black level, it ended up looking like a picture with both the contrast and sharpeness set a little too high. I went back to having my TV do my scaling.

When I say it's "sort of hard" I mean it's actually hard to compare the two. Can I record say a SD movie that's been recorded in 480i and then scale it to difference resolutions via the HR21 after its been recorded? I've only tested it out from "live" TV and again I find it's hard to compare the difference doing so.

Mike728

· #16 · Aug 8, 2008

crawdad62 said:
Doesn't having the Native on keep the original aspect ratio of the program though? Regardless of the resolution?

Yes, but so does setting it to "Off".

cygnusloop

· #17 · Aug 8, 2008

crawdad62 said:
Doesn't having the Native on keep the original aspect ratio of the program though? Regardless of the resolution?

The format output by the HR2x is controlled by the format setting, not the resolution setting. So, native on/off will not matter.

EXCEPT for the fact that your HDTV will know when to apply it's pillar bars based on the resolution that it is receiving. If you want 4:3 pillarboxed, use either Native on, with at least on HD and one SD resolution enabled, and "original format" selected (TV applying the pillars). Or, use Native off with format set to pillarbox and only 1080i enabled (HR2x applying the pillars to SD programming.)

crawdad62 said:
When I say it's "sort of hard" I mean it's actually hard to compare the two. Can I record say a SD movie that's been recorded in 480i and then scale it to difference resolutions via the HR21 after its been recorded? I've only tested it out from "live" TV and again I find it's hard to compare the difference doing so.

When you record a program, it is always recorded and stored on the drive in it's native resolution and format. All scaling and formatting done by the HR2x is done when the program is decoded off the disk and sent to your TV. There will be no difference between live and recorded material.

Carl Spock

· #18 · Aug 8, 2008

crawdad62 said:
When I say it's "sort of hard" I mean it's actually hard to compare the two.

This is exactly the reason I like switching after an extended period of viewing. A/B comparisons mostly tell you what is different, not what is right. If you've been watching one way for a while, and then switch to another way for a while, you are more apt to make a correct value judgement.

Take my recent example upthread. In an A/B comparision, the picture that is more detailed and with deeper blacks jumps out and would seem to be the better one. But after I looked at it for a while, it didn't. It didn't seem as "real" to me. That's why I went back to the one that was slightly softer and with a bit less contrast.

Or use adding hot sauce while cooking as an analogy. With A/B comparisons, you get something like "this is hotter than that". Whether it is too spicy can only be determined by eating the meal.

crawdad62

Discussion Starter · #19 · Aug 8, 2008

cygnusloop said:
The format output by the HR2x is controlled by the format setting, not the resolution setting. So, native on/off will not matter.

EXCEPT for the fact that your HDTV will know when to apply it's pillar bars based on the resolution that it is receiving. If you want 4:3 pillarboxed, use either Native on, with at least on HD and one SD resolution enabled, and "original format" selected (TV applying the pillars). Or, use Native off with format set to pillarbox and only 1080i enabled (HR2x applying the pillars to SD programming.)

When you record a program, it is always recorded and stored on the drive in it's native resolution and format. All scaling and formatting done by the HR2x is done when the program is decoded off the disk and sent to your TV. There will be no difference between live and recorded material.

Ah. I'm starting to get a handle on it. I'm a bit slow on the up-take.

Carl Spock said:
This is exactly the reason I like switching after an extended period of viewing. A/B comparisons mostly tell you what is different, not what is right. If you've been watching one way for a while, and then switch to another way for a while, you are more apt to make a correct value judgement.

Take my recent example upthread. In an A/B comparision, the picture that is more detailed and with deeper blacks jumps out and would seem to be the better one. But after I looked at it for a while, it didn't. It didn't seem as "real" to me. That's why I went back to the one that was slightly softer and with a bit less contrast.

Or use adding hot sauce while cooking as an analogy. With A/B comparisons, you get something like "this is hotter than that". Whether it is too spicy can only be determined by eating the meal.

That analogy makes sense.

I'll get it some time. It's become obvious that there's no set in stone way and as mentioned before it really boils down to what looks best to the individual viewer.

I really do appreciate you guys filling me in.

bonscott87

· #20 · Aug 8, 2008

I think others have covered it well but the answer is "it depends".

Every TV is different so there is no "right" answer. Basically try all the different combinations and stick with the one that looks best to you. For me I let the HR20 and 21 do it all and just set it at 1080i and I'm done with it. But then my HDTV is over 5 years old, so old it doesn't even have a DVI connection let alone HDMI.

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