[ruby2zdy]

I've called DirecTV about 5 times since I got my HR-20 in October. My problems are getting worse & worse. Some programs don't record at all (like the 3rd episode of the Lost Room -- permanently lost to me because it's not available on iTunes); programs appear to have recorded, but I only get a black screen (but TV not locked up); parts of programs record; some recorded programs are truncated either at the beginning or the end; I can't remove anything from my priority list. Some programs never show up in a search (e.g. New Adventures of Old Christine); some only show up part of the time, even when there are upcoming upisodes

I have the latest SW patch. Every techhie I talk to has a different explanation as to what's wrong, but for every one of them, the solution is a fatal format. I don't want to do that -- I don't want to save off the hours & hours of stuff I haven't watched (note: disc is 76% empty) & program my non-HD-DVR (Hughes w/TiVo SW which works just fine), because that TV is downstairs and it's the dead of winter and it's cold down there.

Anyway, one of the tecchies told me the problem was "bad sectors". But he didn't know whether they were physically bad or data bad. Having been a sysadmin, I do know what he's talking about. No self-respecting OS would try to write new data over a bad sector, so, if he's right, then the HR-20 has an inferior OS. And what IS that OS anyway -- is it something tried and tested, like Unix or Linux? Or did DirecTV try to invent a whole new OS? If the latter, then that's probably our problem right there.

Another tecchie told me (actually 2 tecchies told me this, or maybe I got the same guy twice) that local HD channels broadcast in MPEG-4 and the HR-20 was designed to receive MPEG-2 and this "sometimes causes local HD shows not to record properly" (like not record at all, or record black). Does anyone know anything about this? Are senior DirecTV tech people here? If this is the problem, a fatal reformat isn't going to fix it. An upgrade to the OS is needed.

I'm so frustrated with the conflicting "answers" I get from the tech people (although I must say I don't usually have to wait very long for them to answer, but maybe that's because I call them at 2 a.m.), I'm seriously considering switching to Comcast <retch>.

I asked them, since I have the Protection Plan, to send me a new box. Then I could watch the recorded programs off my old box & record new ones onto the new box until I've watched all the ones I've recorded, and then I would send the old box to them. Their response was that (a) they wouldn't replace the box until I had done a fatal reformat on this one, and (b) if they do replace the box it'll be with a refurb.

I'M GOING TO KILL MYSELF IF THIS CRAZINESS DOESN'T STOP!!!!

ruby2zdy

 

[thekochs]

OK....first is this is panful cable is life threatening. :lol:

Seriously....for one....the HR20 decodes both MPEG2 and MPEG4. There are a ton of folks..including me with good results. Yes, there are known bugs like this new black screen issue...and connectivity issues with HDMI. However, for the most part the HR20 is getting solid.

So.....the comment about bad sector etc. could be true. There have been alot of posts in the past where folks have alot of crazy recording problems...intermitant, etc. and after a reformat/reset they come in line with the rest of us. Basically, from my guess the reformat IDs the bad sectors and marks them for exclusion that the OS is not catching now. Now, I am NOT suggesting to do a reformat/reset....you will lose all your recordings you do have and start from scratch on setup. However, if you've been doing that awhile and forcing the new downloads you are probably comfortable with the process. So, if the problems become so catastrophic you should get the box swapped but first try the reformat/reset option.

1) To completely reformat the HR20 hard drive you can press and hold together the HR20 front panel's Left Arrow & RECORD buttons as the HR20 boots up from a red button reset....check out the Tips-n-Tricks under Desperate Measures: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=72648
2) You can go into on-screen Menu and select Reset Everything. They say this is a ReFormat but some disagree.

Note: This reformat will cause the loss of all drive content including recorded shows in Playlist, ToDos, Favorites, Searches, etc. -- use cautiously.

 

[harsh]

Anyway, one of the tecchies told me the problem was "bad sectors".

Something is bad, but it probably isn't the hard disk. More likely, the decoding system isn't correctly handling corrupt stream data.

Or did DirecTV try to invent a whole new OS? If the latter, then that's probably our problem right there.

Those who know aren't saying, but the problem could be above or below the OS level as well as right in the middle of it.

Another tecchie told me (actually 2 tecchies told me this, or maybe I got the same guy twice) that local HD channels broadcast in MPEG-4 and the HR-20 was designed to receive MPEG-2 and this "sometimes causes local HD shows not to record properly" (like not record at all, or record black).

The HR20 can handle both MPEG2 and MPEG4. Your "techies" are feeding you corrupt data which is apparently giving you black thoughts.

An upgrade to the OS is needed.

Probably not. I'm betting that the problem is not at the OS level.

I'm so frustrated with the conflicting "answers" I get from the tech people (although I must say I don't usually have to wait very long for them to answer, but maybe that's because I call them at 2 a.m.), I'm seriously considering switching to Comcast <retch>.

First off, there are no answers; only speculation. There is some hope in that many claim to have little trouble with their HR20(s).

Secondly, nothing is so bad that you have to perform the ritual of Comcast on yourself.

I'M GOING TO KILL MYSELF IF THIS CRAZINESS DOESN'T STOP!!!!

If you're contemplating killing yourself, I'd give Dish Network a shot. They probably won't treat you any better, but it seems like their HD programming and HD DVR are ready for prime time.

 

[veryoldschool]

2) You can go into on-screen Menu and select Reset Everything. They say this is a ReFormat but some disagree.

My two cents: I've done the reset everything [a couple of times] and I think I have a good idea of what's happening [this happens as you get old:lol: ].
I'm very much in favor of the reset everything over the reformat. I've spent time with tier 2 on this and the reformat is most useful if the box won't boot [hangs at the welcome screen]. We [ D* & I] agreed that the menu reset would do a better job of "flushing out the system" [if you can get into the menu].

 

[thekochs]

My two cents: I've done the reset everything [a couple of times] and I think I have a good idea of what's happening [this happens as you get old:lol: ].
I'm very much in favor of the reset everything over the reformat. I've spent time with tier 2 on this and the reformat is most useful if the box won't boot [hangs at the welcome screen]. We [ D* & I] agreed that the menu reset would do a better job of "flushing out the system" [if you can get into the menu].

Thanks....I've never done either.....seen alot of posts describing both.

Ruby2zdy....let us know what you do and how it goes ?

 

[cjhrph]

The format solution is only a temporary fix at best. Your right, they always recommend this when you call. Ive done it 4 times now. In my opinion, the machine is riddled with bugs, and getting worse with each release. Since xFA, I have had nothing but problems.

This morning, I was watching last nights sabres/penguins game and attempting to "skip to tick" twice. It brought the machine to a halt both times. It recovered by itself after a couple of minutes and I did not have to RBR.

I'm sure Ill have to reset before the day is over.

 

[S. DiThomas]

Yes, there are known bugs like this new black screen issue...and connectivity issues with HDMI. However, for the most part the HR20 is getting solid.

It's not getting better or solid for some of us - in fact for many of us it is LESS reliable than ever before.

I had no resets before Ox10b and now have to do them at least weekly on two of the HR-20s. That's NOT more reliable. People who downplay this having to RBR every few days are brainwashed. If I had to reboot my cable boxes or Samsung D* boxes this much they would have gone back to D* long ago. We are effectively trapped by D* who limits us all to one HD DVR box that they program, that they design, and that and they use to cut all other MFGs out of the market for our $$. We can't vote with our $$ for another box. We can't get out of our lease unless we can demonstrate the boxes breach a warranty or contract in our jurisdiction and without some hassle/class action effort and some of us don't have Cable, FIOS or other choices even if we can get out of our Leases or have the time to arbitrate the issues with D*.

The real problem is the box and the programing. D* brought it out too early so as not to loose customers with the end of the 10-250 from TIVO and make the MPEG4 HD rollout work on time. As we all can see the "bugs" that some downplay with this hyperbole are really fundamental issues that D* should have worked out months before releasing this box. Other than for the HDMI issue - that is generally a hardware and handshaking issue between monitors and the box on different HDMI versions - D* has NO excuse for the recording, MPEG2 vs MPEG4 and BSOD issues with this box. Those are programing problems and it shows with the talent (or lack thereof) D* has programing this box.

Heck they can't even get sounds to work in the menus - we expect stable other fancier features?

If I knew that 0x10b was such junk I would NEVER have "leased" a second HR-20.

I think it's time for Brott to elevate or us to all vote again for the best feature "opt out of SW upgrades" and "be able to return to prior SW updates". What's really wrong is they have no clue what is wrong - they took on too big a task with their box and didn't bring the right staff in to fix the inevitable screw ups and software issues. They didn't test the unit with prior DTivo users and are too focused on the VOD, VIIV features and other niceities (like changing names from My VOD to My playlist) and not core functionality reliability upgrades.

I think at by March if the boxes are NOT reliable you will find out what is really wrong when one or shall I say at least 6-7 of the HR-20 owners start seeking class certification to bring an action on account of all of the HR-20 owners.

 

[marksman]

I could still never see myself doing a format, even with anecdotal evidence supporting it helping in some cases. I still need a reason why this would have any impact on the performance on the box. I can't think of one, so until someone enlightens me as to what this could possibly do to change anything, I wouldn't personally do it. (Not that I need to do it.) I know people will try pretty much anything when they are desperate, and sometimes solutions don't always make perfect sense, but I am just not seeing it.

If someone tells me, "Well bad sectors aren't handled properly and are causing crashes and other unusual behavior. When you format and restart it marks bad sectors and thus takes them out of the pool and they will no longer cause problems. Something like that might convince me, but so far I have not seen anything that actually makes me believe formating does anything but just erase all your saved programs.

I know people who reinstall their os and format their hard drives on a weekly or monthly basis. Personally, I never do that. I have some computers and drives that have not been formatted in 7 or 8 years. When I set it, I don't reformat it. If I have a problem I figure out the actual problem and look to fix the problem. I just have a hard time accepting a format as a real fix.

 

[Twosted]

Have you ever cleaned your registry on your computer? That is what I do on mine if I start to have lockups and such. I don't know if there is one on the HR20 but I am pretty sure there has to be some sort of registry for startup. There is no way to clean the registry on the HR20 HDD. So a full format seems like your best option. Why not just do it? You would save yourself a lot of headaches.

 

[thekochs]

I could still never see myself doing a format, even with anecdotal evidence supporting it helping in some cases. I still need a reason why this would have any impact on the performance on the box. I can't think of one, so until someone enlightens me as to what this could possibly do to change anything, I wouldn't personally do it. (Not that I need to do it.) I know people will try pretty much anything when they are desperate, and sometimes solutions don't always make perfect sense, but I am just not seeing it.

If someone tells me, "Well bad sectors aren't handled properly and are causing crashes and other unusual behavior. When you format and restart it marks bad sectors and thus takes them out of the pool and they will no longer cause problems. Something like that might convince me, but so far I have not seen anything that actually makes me believe formating does anything but just erase all your saved programs.

I know people who reinstall their os and format their hard drives on a weekly or monthly basis. Personally, I never do that. I have some computers and drives that have not been formatted in 7 or 8 years. When I set it, I don't reformat it. If I have a problem I figure out the actual problem and look to fix the problem. I just have a hard time accepting a format as a real fix.

OK...I want to state up front I have no idea the O/S in this box and how it does or doesn't manage the HDD. However, assuming it is not doing a good job marking and excluding bad sectors then definitely having writes to those bad sectors can cause real problem. Especially if the bad sector is something close to the beginning of the file table and keeps getting hit. Now, unlike a PC where there are disk doctor programs without having to do reformats....perhaps the HR20s only true way to do this is during a reformat where most likely they are running a script/tool etc. from the HDD manufacturer to format the HDD. Again, I'm not saying this is the problem...but it could exclude it.

Anyway, please don't do this if you feel uncomfortable but prior to swapping out the box with D* at that point it is worth a try.

 

[veryoldschool]

OK...I want to state up front I have no idea the O/S in this box and how it does or doesn't manage the HDD. However, assuming it is not doing a good job marking and excluding bad sectors then definitely having writes to those bad sectors can cause real problem. Especially if the bad sector is something close to the beginning of the file table and keeps getting hit. Now, unlike a PC where there are disk doctor programs without having to do reformats....perhaps the HR20s only true way to do this is during a reformat where most likely they are running a script/tool etc. from the HDD manufacturer to format the HDD. Again, I'm not saying this is the problem...but it could exclude it. Anyway, please don't do this if you feel uncomfortable but prior to swapping out the box with D* at that point it is worth a try.

My half penny:
From what I've seen with a reformat [or three], the box would only do a "quick format" where it just erases the file table. This has a 300 gig drive. It would take a lot longer to do a "full format" or error checking. I base this on the time a PC takes to do these tasks. Am I an expert? No way. Have I spend years with PC hard drives? yep. FWIW

 

[ruby2zdy]

I just spent 20 min. thanking people for answering my post & commenting on their suggestions & telling you about the test I did last night & when I hit "preview post" I got the msg that I wasn't allowed to put any URLs in my msg, when in fact I had not put any URLs in my msg...

My test was that I set the DVR to record both the HD and the regular version of 3 programs last night and it recorded all of all of them. As opposed to the night before, when I had it set to record only the HD broadcasts and got a Void Recording (showed up in MyList as having recorded but played only black, and made no progress down the timeline, nor would they FF).

I can't dredge up all the stuff I said that got lost here. But will appreciate further input & ideas. Anyone who wants to lead a class action suit -- power to you!! I don't have the energy.

Thanks again,
ruby2zdy

 

[ruby2zdy]

OK, I figured out that the forum SW thinks an inserted Smiley is an URL. Maybe they are. Fine. No more attempts to inserts Smileys until I've posted 5 times. Sigh.

ruby2zdy

 

[ruby2zdy]

I did mean to ask again if there's anyone here from DirecTV, because obviously there are a lot of very frustrated DTV HD-DVR users out here who would really really appreciate some real, true information about the problems we have, and who won't ever utter the word "reformat".

ruby2zdy

 

[Xaa]

So you reach out to DTV for help, they offer you a path that has worked for many and you refuse it yet come and post here asking if there is anyone here from DTV that can help you? Very interesting.

You won't reformat, because your shows are so very important, yet you would switch providers rendering those recordings unwatchable? Do you intend to continue to sacrifice future shows for those you haven't had the time to squeeze into your schedule yet?

Your logic is fascinating.

Anyway, if it MUST be your way, then lie. Call DTV and tell them you did the reformat and it didn't work, so they'll replace it under the Protection Plan. Of course that action makes you part of the problem and not part of future solutions, but at least you'll be able to catch up on last month's DR. Phil.

Just reformat the thing already

Xaa

 

[thekochs]

My half penny:
From what I've seen with a reformat [or three], the box would only do a "quick format" where it just erases the file table. This has a 300 gig drive. It would take a lot longer to do a "full format" or error checking. I base this on the time a PC takes to do these tasks. Am I an expert? No way. Have I spend years with PC hard drives? yep. FWIW

Good point....I've never done a reformat or reset everything. I was guessing though perhaps when the file table was reset it finally saw the bad sectors. This is only a guess based on at least alot of posters who did the reformat stopped seeing corruption and record problems.

 

[harsh]

OK...I want to state up front I have no idea the O/S in this box and how it does or doesn't manage the HDD.

We know that the receiver is monitoring the hard drive's S.M.A.R.T. reporting because that's where it is getting its temperature readings. It is theoretically impossible to have this many hard drive errors across so many drives.

The issue may be related to the hard drive's electronics if, as I suspect, DirecTV is running the system too damn hot in an effort to keep the fan quiet. The temperature readings that I've seen are clearly at the upper limit for even the most modern hard drive mechanisms.

 

[thekochs]

We know that the receiver is monitoring the hard drive's S.M.A.R.T. reporting because that's where it is getting its temperature readings. It is theoretically impossible to have this many hard drive errors across so many drives.

The issue may be related to the hard drive's electronics if, as I suspect, DirecTV is running the system too damn hot in an effort to keep the fan quiet. The temperature readings that I've seen are clearly at the upper limit for even the most modern hard drive mechanisms.

I agree....but alls HDDs have some bad sectors....they are just managed so the User does not see them. The question I'm pondering that does the HR20 for some reason not see these new/old bad sectors and the HR20 is writing to them and obvously causing alot of corruption issues. Having absolutely no data or insight the only reason I ponder this is because there are alot of posts of folks that have "recording/playback" problems that after a reformat go away. I'm not saying a reformat solves all recording/playback problems but there have been alot of posts about how much this has helped. Makes you wonder.

 

[Doug Brott]

My problems are getting worse & worse. Some programs don't record at all (like the 3rd episode of the Lost Room -- permanently lost to me because it's not available on iTunes)

Send me a Private Message with your E-mail address and I can help you with that - you have Private Messages disabled.

 

[ruby2zdy]

So you reach out to DTV for help, they offer you a path that has worked for many and you refuse it yet come and post here asking if there is anyone here from DTV that can help you? Very interesting.

You won't reformat, because your shows are so very important, yet you would switch providers rendering those recordings unwatchable? Do you intend to continue to sacrifice future shows for those you haven't had the time to squeeze into your schedule yet?

Your logic is fascinating.

Anyway, if it MUST be your way, then lie. Call DTV and tell them you did the reformat and it didn't work, so they'll replace it under the Protection Plan. Of course that action makes you part of the problem and not part of future solutions, but at least you'll be able to catch up on last month's DR. Phil.

Just reformat the thing already

Xaa

Wow! I wonder what happened in your early childhood to make you so defensive on behalf of a company that clearly doesn't care anything about its subscribers.

As for the "path that has worked for many", it also hasn't worked for many, and, as a former sysadmin, I don't see the logic behind it.

As for rendering those shows unwatchable, let me state this in simple terms you may be able to understand: I would have the old machine, which I could watch at my leisure until all the old programs were gone, then send it back, and I would have the new machine recording new programs. Get it? Or do you need this explained in monosyllables?

I know you're quite sure that accusing me of watching Dr. Phil is a tremendous insult. Y tu mama tambien!!