[Guest]

I'm sitting here throughly bored for the evening and started thinking about why E* put the extra Philly locals on Telstar 7. I don't honestly believe that it was because of lack of bandwidth. I'm sure they could have found room for the few extra channels somewhere.

So here's a theory: Philly has a low concentration of subscribers because of Comcast Sports Net. Why not take advantage of that fact and use the city for a Proof of Concept. The 301 and 501 receivers that originally got the 129 code (and all of them now) have the ability to change from an E* receiver to a pretty much standard C-Band receiver. Proof that they can support two (or more) different standards on these boxes with minimal visibility to the end user.

Now, with the pending merger, they may have to do this again, but with D* signal rather than C-Band. They've already created code to use another standard on their boxes. It seems like it should be pretty simple now to convert to "dual signal" boxes after the merger.

I take all of this to mean that the E* boxes will all continue to work post merger, and that D* boxes will likely become the standard for all new subs. All they'd actually have to replace for existing customers is pre-301/501 boxes. This should mean a pretty substantial savings over any other equipment replacement solution. It also means the end of the DishPlayer, and with all of the problems, I imagine that they hope to do that anyway.

 

[JohnH]

Actually the only difference between 129 and the other sats is the LNBF. The modifications to the 301s, 501s and 6000s were to add the designation and the possibility of receiving 4 sats.

The reason stated for using Telstar 7 is there is no more capacity at 61.5. This reason is plausible since they have been using 1 more Tp there than it is supposed to be capable of powering. Remember EchoStar 3 did not reach its full potential, due to some power supply problems.

As to the reason they chose Philadelphia, it could be any of many.

 

[bryan27]

E* receivers are a standard MPEG-2 receiver and are able to pick up anything that transmitts the MPEG-2 standard that has an SR of 20000, channel numbers and PIDs recognizable to the receiver.

John is correct it all has to to with the LNBF. It has long been known that E* receivers can receive a standard MPEG-2 signal from any of the satellite bands provided the signal transmits the same SR and PIDs that dish uses.

D* doesn't transmit a standard MPEG-2 signal. Their signal is a modified form of MPEG-2 that is not compatable with E* receivers. If D* receivers are chosen all E* receivers will have to be replaced. A simple program upgrade won't do it.

BTW the Phily locals are on KU-Band not C-Band. DBS is also in the KU-Band. The KU-Band TP on T7 that the Phily locals are on uses the same MPEG-2 standard that is used on all the E* DBS sats. The standard is exactly the same only the operating frequency of the localtion of the additional Phily locals has changed.

 

[Geronimo]

I keep hearing different stories about whether D and E receivers can be made compatible. I am sure all are passing on info they feel is correct. I do not know what is.

 

[BrettR]

They added 3 chinese stations to 61.5 after mustcarry, they had space for 2 Grand Rapids channels also that were started at 61.5 and moved later to 119. That's 5 right there. Could have put WFMZ, WGTW, WYBE, WWAC and WNJS at 61.5.

Now they signed to carry Discovery HD which will be partime with Demo loop. Could have been space for the rest: WUVP and WWSI. Then some station like WTVE and WMGM decided to request mustcarry but not follow pursue on it, but Dish still had to reserve space for them.

I'm sure Charlie makes more money selling 3 Chinese channels and most international programming, Cricket PPV with a high markup cost, than Philly locals. They also want to be the leader in HDTV. So it was a business decision. once E8 is operational, they'll free Conus space. Philly locals wont move there either. Ergen says the big dish until merger.

 

[JohnH]

The space for Grand Rapids at 61.5 was 3 channels and was reserved at the same time as the other locals were reserved on 61.5. Space is still reserved for one Grand Rapids local at 61.5.

Some other cities at 61.5 required more than originally planned. The Chinese channels were not added to Tps reserved for locals.

In the original layout they found it necessary to put a few locals with some HD Channels.

They want to launch more local cities, also.

Philadelphia has 11 channels reserved at 129 of which at least 7 are being used.

 

[BrettR]

In the end, it was E* business decision.

They configured how they wanted their spotbeams,
they decided which TPs are reserved for locals,
they chose which markets go where,
they knew about mustcarry when SHVIA became law and used SHVIA to carry local markets,
they knew approximately how many full power channels were in Philadelphia DMA,
they knew they didnt have access to Comcast Sportsnet,
they had the ability to clicktv.com or tvguide.com, and check Center City Comcast's cable lineup seeing how many full power local channels were able to get a quality signal to Comcast's and Urban Work's headends in Philadelphia,

they knew ahead of time, and leased space from 129.

it was all their decision. Some might justify E* actions as they didnt have space. Well if they reserve it for space for another programming content(Chinese channels, different markets), it shows their priorities are not to Philly. Comcast is part to blame, but Dish has made no indication of Philly locals on 129 are because of lack of CSN. They have been fighting mustcarry all along and are dodging it now.

 

[EdF]

Why does it matter that seven of the current 14 Philly locals are on 129 instead of 61.5?

We got to upgrade two of our receivers for FREE, we got a new larger dish and SW64 for FREE for 119/110/129, and we were allowed to keep the existing Dish 500 and SW64 (119/110) for three receivers we didn't want to trade out (2 - 7200's and a 5000). When I get up the original Dish 300 for 61.5, we'll add a 6000.

AND, the larger dish has improved some rain fade on the 301's, and 129 has yet to go out when 119 and 110 occasionally do with all the heavy storms lately.

We're happy!

 

[BrettR]

It makes it a bigger hassle for those that have 61.5 for HD already and upgraded for this, at one time upgraded from Dish 300 to Dish 500, and find out just for some additional locals they need to upgrade again. The big dish does have its advantages but not everyone will want it or think they want one.

It makes Philly an already exceptional market (lacking an RSN) even more of an exception. It would be one thing if Dish kept all the Philly locals together, but keeping half one bird, another 7 on 129, certain stations like WGTW WFMZ arent satisfied and dont want to be isolated from the rest of the Philly group. Their station viewing will be affected. WFMZ paid a fiber connection in anticipation they'd get carriage, followed the mustcarry to full extent, Dish drops them to 129, not a common satellite and away from the more watched Philly group. It makes it difficult for WGTW, WFMZ to compete with stations like KYW, etc. when Dish is using a cookie cutter approach saying customers only want network affiliates and dont want home shopping feeds what Dish considers most mustcarry channels even when they are not.

One might say Philly DBS penetration is already so low because of CCSN, its minimal loss to these stations. But E* gave no indication that if they got CCSN, that the Philly locals would all be together for customer convenience. Instead, Charlie said only after merger. If mustcarry was overturned(what Charlie was praying for) E* could drop them too or demand these stations pay for carriage or lose carriage. Time Warner has made adhesion contract with Low Power UPNs (that are ineligible for mustcarry carriage) share their revenue with them. Or in case of Cincinnati, Time Warner will only carry the station during evening hours. I'm sure only because Viacom wanted UPN coverage, but the LP station affiliated still isnt carried fulltime and doesnt have mustcarry privilege. Time Warner's reason for not carrying a LP channel fulltime isnt because of channel capacity(where E* deficiency lies), but because the cable system usually competes with broadcasters for local advertising, and most cable companies dont want to carry too many local channels especially Low powers when they dont have to.

If Dish got CCSN, it would be a bigger threat for a station like WGTW if they were still left at 129. IMO, if Dish complied with mustcarry and configured their spotbeams like how DirecTV did (Dish would have to move core to 110 probably), and all locals were together, they would have had NAB support probably for the merger.

 

[JohnH]

Wait until you find out there is no spotbeam for Philadelphia. And Philadelphia is certainly not alone in the split up locals area. Practically every top market is in the same boat, so to speak.
The 4sat solution solves the 61.5, 110, 119 and 129 problem, still with only 2 dishes.
People in the west have to have 3 dishes to get locals and Sky Angel.

 

[Mark Lamutt]

I'm soon to be one of the 3 dish people, and I'm not even on the west coast...I'm in Denver! With my extra locals on 148 (plus KCBS-DT from Los Angeles) and Discovery-HD and WCBS-DT from New York on 61.5 I have to add my third dish to get everything I want.