Err..they stated it was 1080p, they made no claims of bitrates or anything else. Its satellite television for the masses, not dedicated local media.
Why doesn't Sony sue Dish Network for "Turbo HD" Claims?
They claim turbo HD has Bluray quality video an audio.
REALLY? Well, Bluray is up to 40Mbps JUST FOR VIDEO, it has up to 7.1 TRUE DISCRETE AUDIO, it has TRUE LOSSLESS COMPRESSION for audio, for full master quality audio. Does "Turbo HD" have any of this?
I believe what Dish Network says about as much as what Bose says. Comparing Bluray to "Turbo HD" is like putting some big spinner rims on a Hyundai and calling it a Rolls Royce Phantom.
REALLY? Well, Bluray is up to 40Mbps JUST FOR VIDEO, it has up to 7.1 TRUE DISCRETE AUDIO, it has TRUE LOSSLESS COMPRESSION for audio, for full master quality audio. Does "Turbo HD" have any of this?
I believe what Dish Network says about as much as what Bose says. Comparing Bluray to "Turbo HD" is like putting some big spinner rims on a Hyundai and calling it a Rolls Royce Phantom.
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http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=1601
http://www.hollywoodinhighdef.com/blog_detail.php?id=225
http://www.hollywoodinhighdef.com/blog_detail.php?id=225
Hollywood In High-def
August 5, 2008
Satellite Not Really Blu-ray Quality 1080p?
One of the big selling points of Blu-ray Disc has been that it offers higher level HD -- full 1080p -- than any TV service which until now has never been better than 1080i and is often 720p or less.
But EchoStar's DISH Network is now making a major marketing splash with TV commercials and double-page ads in USA Today and other publications about its new "TurboHD" satellite service offering "100% HD" and 1080p VOD -- "same as Blu-ray Disc quality." (click here for details at DISH Network web site)
But what they don't reveal is whether he frame and transfer rates via satellite compare to Blu-ray, which is generally even more of a determining factor in picture quality than lines of resolution and scanning methods.
Andy Parsons of the BDA (Blu-ray Disc Association) says that while it's nice to see DISH Network acknowledging Blu-ray as the hi-def benchmark standard, BDA is skeptical until they can see the quality and information about the service for themselves.
According to Parsons, 1080p would be possible if the DISH receiver (set-top) box can receive 24 or 30fps digitally and then output 60fps via HDMI. This is how BD players do the job, which makes the bandwidth argument less relevant than it first appears. The real argument, he says, has to do with picture quality, not
resolution (artifacts, softening of the image, etc.).
Although the distinction in a side-by-side comparison would likely be apparent to most customers, unfortunately that level of technical minutae may be lost on most consumers in clever advertising campaigns.
The OP was talking bitrates which only a tech-savvy type would even know about. Dishes claims are their problem to back up but 1080p video can be achieved with less than bluray-level bandwidth. 1080p is just a checkbox feature for most but sure has the blu-ray fanboys up in arms.
Until Dish can up convert (like my PS3) every HD channel we have, TurboHD is a complete farce.
I am NOT paying for anything On Demand or PPV, they are freakin' nuts. I can rent an ACTUAL BluRay movie for much less than $7. As well, Sony is just as nuts having downloadable videos for rent on the PSN.
If our HD channels were up converted to 1080p, then the TurboHD would be something actually worth advertising about. They are trying to recruit new customers to buy PPV content? That's really lame.
I am NOT paying for anything On Demand or PPV, they are freakin' nuts. I can rent an ACTUAL BluRay movie for much less than $7. As well, Sony is just as nuts having downloadable videos for rent on the PSN.
If our HD channels were up converted to 1080p, then the TurboHD would be something actually worth advertising about. They are trying to recruit new customers to buy PPV content? That's really lame.
They claimed "Bluray Quality Picture and Sound" in their TV ads.jethro65 said:Err..they stated it was 1080p, they made no claims of bitrates or anything else. Its satellite television for the masses, not dedicated local media.
I guess somebody will try and point out a Bluray Disc that has horrible sound and picture quality to defend Dish. If somebody made a Yugo and claimed "As fast as a Ferrari", and then when they tried to call them on it, if the Yugo guy said "As Fast as a Ferrari in first gear" to defend it, basically that's what Dish is doing.
Unless you have evidence of something different, all that Dish has ever said is "we have 1080p Video on Demand - same as Blue Ray Dish quality"Jack White said:They claimed "Bluray Quality Picture and Sound" in their TV ads.
I guess somebody will try and point out a Bluray Disc that has horrible sound and picture quality to defend Dish. If somebody made a Yugo and claimed "As fast as a Ferrari", and then when they tried to call them on it, if the Yugo guy said "As Fast as a Ferrari in first gear" to defend it, basically that's what Dish is doing.
http://www.dishnetwork.com/content/our_products/dish_hd/learn_about/faq/index.shtml
You can argue what 'quality' means, etc. etc. Whatever - It's marketing crap the same as everyone else does. That's why they are specifically vague. They're trying to sell something.
What I find odd is that you have to setup a hypothetical "I guess somebody will try" to defend the honor of Blu-Ray. It's a freakin' DVD format. I don't understand the passion and anger behind statements like that...
I don't think that Jack understands what the meaning of the term "up to" is.
Main reason Sony does not sue is because the way it is worded, they would lose and it would cost them alot of money.
We have lots of Rolls Royce's (and Bentley's and Maserati's, and you name it) here in Vero Beach and I have never seen one with spinner wheels, and I hope I never do. Anyone doing that to a Rolls should be taken out and put out of their misery.Comparing Bluray to "Turbo HD" is like putting some big spinner rims on a Hyundai and calling it a Rolls Royce Phantom.
And don't make fun of Hyundai's or my Santa Fe might not start.
But Hyundai does compare the new Genesis to a Lexus, Infinity, BMW, and MB.
And as the others have said no comparison of bit rates or audio have been shown or promised.
Oh and the trademark of Blu Ray is governed by the Blu Ray Disc consortium...... Not Sony. Sure Sony is one of the main stake holders..... But anyone who thinks they are the sole proprietor has not done their homework.
And as the others have said no comparison of bit rates or audio have been shown or promised.
Oh and the trademark of Blu Ray is governed by the Blu Ray Disc consortium...... Not Sony. Sure Sony is one of the main stake holders..... But anyone who thinks they are the sole proprietor has not done their homework.
Dish "IAL" movie done with CBR=15 Mbps 1080p24 format.
I recall a Jeep TV commercial that ran a couple of years ago. The commercial was promoting the Jeep Grand Cherokee, the largest of their fleet.
In the commercial, the statement is made that the Jeep Grand Cherokee goes from 0 to 60 faster than a BMW 318i, which by all accounts, is true.
Jeep fails to point out, their Grand Cherokee is equipped with a 280hp V-8 engine, while the BMW 318i is equipped with a 1900cc 160hp 4 cylinder engine.
All anyone watching the commercial took away is, the Jeep Grand Cherokee is faster than a BMW, simply because, only BMW owners know what a 318i is.
Did BMW sue Jeep...no silly, because the content of the advertisement was true....same as DISH.
In the commercial, the statement is made that the Jeep Grand Cherokee goes from 0 to 60 faster than a BMW 318i, which by all accounts, is true.
Jeep fails to point out, their Grand Cherokee is equipped with a 280hp V-8 engine, while the BMW 318i is equipped with a 1900cc 160hp 4 cylinder engine.
All anyone watching the commercial took away is, the Jeep Grand Cherokee is faster than a BMW, simply because, only BMW owners know what a 318i is.
Did BMW sue Jeep...no silly, because the content of the advertisement was true....same as DISH.
Its just marketing. Who cares that much? I, for one, only have a 720p TV, a 5.1 sound system, and think my upconverting Oppo DVD player is plenty good enough, at least enough to prevent me from dropping a few hundred bucks on a Blu Ray player.
And most ads I've seen only claim same resolution as Blu Ray. Plenty of a disclaimer, as the statement is true.
And most ads I've seen only claim same resolution as Blu Ray. Plenty of a disclaimer, as the statement is true.
Well, if I were Dish, I'd be a little worried I'd lose my CNET Editor's Choice logo because of the misleading way it's placed, allowing an unknowing person to infer that everything above it is what CNET reviewed instead of just the DVR. And I don't think that if I were considering viewing the 1080p "I Am Legend" and was one of those customers who had a compatible system I would expect less than the full stream that would come from the Blu-ray DVD currently available from Amazon for $18.95, though for less than three bucks that would probably be foolish. Still, Dish is going to leave somebody among their customers feeling like they were conned, it is inevitable. Dumb way to advertise.:nono2:
I don't believe I'm about to say this but... The FCC or FTC needs to step up and do something about all of the deceptive advertising by all of the Sat/Cable/Fios providers.
There needs to be a set standard of what HD is. A value of bitrate established for each resolution and that bit rate can be variable as new encoders come along.
Also resolution needs to be addressed if you advertise 1080i you better be sending 1920x1080 and 720p should be 1280x720 with bitrates that don't make the screen look like a bunch small squares when birds fly across the screen and a camera pans across a crowd.
Also they need to have them tell the complete truth about how many HD channels you can receive. If they are advertising on a national market then they better advertise you can only get # of channels anywhere around the country, now if it is a local advertisement they should say how many that market can get. Like here in Chicago we can get 7 locals + the true national channels which equals somewhere around 50 total which is a big difference from the 114 or 117 advertised.
I really do hate having Government mess with stuff. I mean it I do.
There needs to be a set standard of what HD is. A value of bitrate established for each resolution and that bit rate can be variable as new encoders come along.
Also resolution needs to be addressed if you advertise 1080i you better be sending 1920x1080 and 720p should be 1280x720 with bitrates that don't make the screen look like a bunch small squares when birds fly across the screen and a camera pans across a crowd.
Also they need to have them tell the complete truth about how many HD channels you can receive. If they are advertising on a national market then they better advertise you can only get # of channels anywhere around the country, now if it is a local advertisement they should say how many that market can get. Like here in Chicago we can get 7 locals + the true national channels which equals somewhere around 50 total which is a big difference from the 114 or 117 advertised.
I really do hate having Government mess with stuff. I mean it I do.
Regarding the number of channels - it's what the COMPANY delivering, not what particular customer getting.
As to FCC, hell no - they didn't move one iota when DTV and Dish start cramming MPEG-2 HD signal doing two cuts -resolution and bandwidth.
We are tail part of the machine, like exhausting pipe, he he and FCC should lubricate whole mechanism, not the pipe.
As to FCC, hell no - they didn't move one iota when DTV and Dish start cramming MPEG-2 HD signal doing two cuts -resolution and bandwidth.
We are tail part of the machine, like exhausting pipe, he he and FCC should lubricate whole mechanism, not the pipe.
The International Telecommunication Union (ITU) sets standards for broadcast HDTV. Actually, the ITU Radiocommunication Sector (ITU-R) is the division of the ITU that is responsible for radio communication.
ITU-R Recommendation BT.709 or Rec. 709 standardizes the format of High-definition television in an effort to avoid conflicting standards between countries which was the experience with SD TV.
The ITU functions to establish standards in the use of the radio spectrum generally within the framework of the public interest, but it's political. Then there is Blu-ray against which people here are measuring broadcast television.
Blu-ray is a commercial optical disk media storage system. It's a good system. But it's critical to understand that its purpose is oriented towards commercial video media and presenting that content in the high quality and protecting the content with even higher quality digital rights management systems.
Both broadcast TV and Blu-ray use data compression systems that work within the limitations of the respective media - the radio spectrum and the optical disk. To confuse things more, both cable and satellite have to deal with compressing that data to fit within the limits of their systems' bandwidth capacity.
IMHO it is stupid for broadcasters, and the systems that carry them like cable and satellite, to encourage a comparison between (a) what they can offer and (b) what you get when you attach directly to your home theater system a Blu-ray player that costs as much as your satellite receiver and does nothing until you buy or rent a commercially prerecorded disk to stick in it.
Also the nice folks at the Blu-ray Disc Association (BDA) are not trying to deliver live to your home from China five simultaneous HD video/Dolby 5.1 audio streams of the 2008 Olympics. Dish Network and NBCU together did that for me pretty darned well.
ITU-R Recommendation BT.709 or Rec. 709 standardizes the format of High-definition television in an effort to avoid conflicting standards between countries which was the experience with SD TV.
The ITU functions to establish standards in the use of the radio spectrum generally within the framework of the public interest, but it's political. Then there is Blu-ray against which people here are measuring broadcast television.
Blu-ray is a commercial optical disk media storage system. It's a good system. But it's critical to understand that its purpose is oriented towards commercial video media and presenting that content in the high quality and protecting the content with even higher quality digital rights management systems.
Both broadcast TV and Blu-ray use data compression systems that work within the limitations of the respective media - the radio spectrum and the optical disk. To confuse things more, both cable and satellite have to deal with compressing that data to fit within the limits of their systems' bandwidth capacity.
IMHO it is stupid for broadcasters, and the systems that carry them like cable and satellite, to encourage a comparison between (a) what they can offer and (b) what you get when you attach directly to your home theater system a Blu-ray player that costs as much as your satellite receiver and does nothing until you buy or rent a commercially prerecorded disk to stick in it.
Also the nice folks at the Blu-ray Disc Association (BDA) are not trying to deliver live to your home from China five simultaneous HD video/Dolby 5.1 audio streams of the 2008 Olympics. Dish Network and NBCU together did that for me pretty darned well.
Alls I know is that i just switched from DTV to Dish. I really do think the HD on Dish looks nicer. After the POS DTV HD Tivo wannabe receiver missed recording a bunch of shows, even my "I don't see any difference with HD" wife demanded I toss it.
But the irony in it all is that the Dish DVR (612) only outputs up to 1080i. Not 1080p.
But the irony in it all is that the Dish DVR (612) only outputs up to 1080i. Not 1080p.
Actually, I think it's brilliant marketing.phrelin said:IMHO it is stupid for broadcasters, and the systems that carry them like cable and satellite, to encourage a comparison between (a) what they can offer and (b) what you get when you attach directly to your home theater system a Blu-ray player that costs as much as your satellite receiver and does nothing until you buy or rent a commercially prerecorded disk to stick in it.
I don't have the links, but I've certainly read (EngadgetHD?) about surveys where most people can't tell the difference between 720 and 1080, much less 1080i and 1080p. For most people with most sets, they 'think' they're getting 'the best there is' delivered right over their satellite box. And they will be perfectly happy.
Certainly the crowd that studies this stuff intently (like us) won't be fooled. But you CAN fool most of the people most of the time and hopefully make money. Or at least keep up with your competitors.
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