[psnarula]

channels under 100 are for mirrored locals. so why is HSN mirrored on channel 84?

 

[James Long]

To make you look.

 

[Michael P]

This has been asked before: Ch 84 is an ASTC "virtural" channel. If there is an OTA HSN channel their digital channel will somday be 84 across the country. Rather than uplink dozens of local HSN's E* has an agreement to uplink the one national feed of HSN which appears along with the rest of the locals.

An ASTC virtural channel is where a local station keeps it's identity (i.e. channel number) even though their actual frequency is something else. For example my local ABC is ch 5. Thier ASTC Digital signal is on Rf ch 15. My EPG still calls it "5.01" (5.00 is the analog signal, 5.02 would be a subchannel if they chose to have one).

Someday you may see the major networks alligning themselves to the same channel number nationwide. So far only the minor networks have started doing this. PAX/I will be on virtural ch 75.

 

[GeorgeLV]

This has been asked before: Ch 84 is an ASTC "virtural" channel. If there is an OTA HSN channel their digital channel will somday be 84 across the country. Rather than uplink dozens of local HSN's E* has an agreement to uplink the one national feed of HSN which appears along with the rest of the locals.

An ASTC virtural channel is where a local station keeps it's identity (i.e. channel number) even though their actual frequency is something else. For example my local ABC is ch 5. Thier ASTC Digital signal is on Rf ch 15. My EPG still calls it "5.01" (5.00 is the analog signal, 5.02 would be a subchannel if they chose to have one).

Someday you may see the major networks alligning themselves to the same channel number nationwide. So far only the minor networks have started doing this. PAX/I will be on virtural ch 75.

Where are you getting your information from?

From what I can find, there are only 2 registered ATSC virtual channels. 75 for Tribune Broadcasting and 99 for USDTV.

http://www.atsc.org/standards/virtual_channels.html

 

[Link]

Someday you may see the major networks alligning themselves to the same channel number nationwide. So far only the minor networks have started doing this. PAX/I will be on virtural ch 75.

Why hasn't E* added Pax/I on 75 for areas that have a local Pax/I station? I'd like to have the station and we do have a local Pax/I station, but I am not going (and don't feel I should have to) subscribe to the 120 package just to receive it.

 

[Michael P]

It's still early in the ASTC roll-out. While not "official" I'm willing to bet HSC has every intention of making ch 84 official. Otherwise, why else would they put it there on E*?

 

[Stewart Vernon]

I thought that once the digital cutoff happens in 2009, those high UHF channels will go away for OTA TV use... so I don't see how HSN could ever be on an OTA channel 84 after that, unless I am missing something.

 

[whatchel1]

It's still early in the ASTC roll-out. While not "official" I'm willing to bet HSC has every intention of making ch 84 official. Otherwise, why else would they put it there on E*?

If your gonna use it use the correct acronym It isn't ASTC it is ATSC. Advanced Television Standards Committee.

 

[James Long]

I thought that once the digital cutoff happens in 2009, those high UHF channels will go away for OTA TV use... so I don't see how HSN could ever be on an OTA channel 84 after that, unless I am missing something.

That is one reason why the high numbers are available for "virtual" numbers. No conflicts with existing or future stations.

Eventually all TV will be on channel 51 or less. Physically, that is. You will still see a few ATSC channel numbers as high as 69 that reflect the old NTSC dial positions. "Dial position" channel numbers do NOT have to match physical channel numbers. The higher channel numbers make it easy for a broadcaster (such as TBN and HSN) to be on the same "dial position" across the entire country. However, as noted before, HSN has NOT filed with the ATSC to reserve a number.

Why is HSN on 84 on E*? Why isn't it on 84 on D*? It is likely just something that HSN contracted with E* to do. To make it easier to find the channel instead of other shopping channels --- to set them apart.

 

[psnarula]

I guess this is similar in some ways to having ESPN News and ESPN Classic in between ESPN and ESPN2.

 

[Hall]

Why is HSN on 84 on E*? Why isn't it on 84 on D*? It is likely just something that HSN contracted with E* to do. To make it easier to find the channel instead of other shopping channels --- to set them apart.

I read a long time ago that the shopping channels actually pay the provider vs the other way around. Is that true ??

As far as HSN moving to channel 84 on all systems across the country, doesn't D* already have that channel taken ?? Seems to me it's one of their HD channels. I don't have D*, so I'm just speculating.

Anyway, who cares ?? I don't see HSN at ch 80 on my setup.....

 

[Link]

I think what it means is that over the air HSN will be available on 84 in each market with a digital off air tuner even though it may actually broadcast at different UHF digital frequencies in each area.

Here ABC 7 is on 7.1 with an HD off air tuner but it really broadcasts on 52.1. I can't think what the word is for this. I think the local PBS here is on 47.1 but on the tuner its 11.1.

 

[Stewart Vernon]

I hadn't thought of the virtual aspect... I was aware the cutoff for actual channels UHF was somewhere around 50 after 2009... but it didn't occur to me that while the actual frequency would have to be below broadcast channel 50, for example, that perhaps the FCC would still permit virtual channel labelling for a higher number... so if HSN wanted to always be 84... they might be on 22 or 16 or 43, but could always broadcast PSIP channel 84 for the channel identifier.

That makes a little more sense, if in fact it is what they are planning for in the future.

 

[Michael P]

If your gonna use it use the correct acronym It isn't ASTC it is ATSC. Advanced Television Standards Committee.

My bad - I must be going dyslexic

ATSC ATSC ATSC......

 

[James Long]

I hadn't thought of the virtual aspect... I was aware the cutoff for actual channels UHF was somewhere around 50 after 2009... but it didn't occur to me that while the actual frequency would have to be below broadcast channel 50, for example, that perhaps the FCC would still permit virtual channel labelling for a higher number... so if HSN wanted to always be 84... they might be on 22 or 16 or 43, but could always broadcast PSIP channel 84 for the channel identifier.

That makes a little more sense, if in fact it is what they are planning for in the future.

I hope the FCC relents on some of the rules in the future. As it stands, stations MUST use their NTSC channel number on their ATSC channel - regardless of physical location. Some stations will be moving their ATSC operation to their NTSC bandwidth in 2009 (and the virtual number will be the same as the physical channel). Others have chosen to remain on their digital assignment (and their virtual number will remain their old NTSC dial position). A few will go to a third channel (not their current NTSC or ATSC physical channel - but they will maintain their virtual NTSC channel position).

Eventually new ATSC stations will be allowed on the air and some will take over the old bandwidth once occupied by current stations in the market. What number will they use? If a current station has "returned" to it's NTSC bandwidth their "temporary" digital channel and number will be vacant - no problem. But if they remain on their current ATSC frequency whomever gets their NTSC channel will need a number - without conflicting with anyone else.

What I am expecting is multiple channel numbers, similar to the way a satellite transponder can carry multiple channels. Perhaps physical channel 42 hosts channel 16.1 and 84.1 ? It is possible in the specs. Both channels can also point to the same physical content, if desired.

Welcome to the TV of the future. "Dial positions" are just numbers.

 

[Stewart Vernon]

When all is said and done, after 2009... I believe only one channel in my area will actually be on its actual channel. Channel 28.1 and 28.2 currently are on channel 27 frequency... but after 2009 they will move to channel 28 once they stop broadcasting their analog there.

All the other channels in my area will be on UHF (some keeping current assignments, others moving to new assignments) but no other channel will actually be on its channel frequency matching the virtual channel assignment.