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Legend
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Why can't the DBS providers and the government come up with this type of compromise with regards to locals and distant network feeds?

We have "significantly viewed" starting to show up to a limited degree now. WHy not allow all customers their own locals, plus either an adjacent market whose spot beam is recievable, OR, the NYC/LA locals?

For example, if you're in Zanesville, OH, you get the single Zanesville station, plus you can pick either Columbus, Wheeling-Steubenville, or Charleston-Huntington, OR-the NYC nets? You're not hurting the local DMA since they aren't serving you properly anyway? Maybe even JUST the networks not already available locally? You have NBC in Zanesville so just the other major networks?

Or perhaps you live in Cincinnati, Ohio but also want to get Dayton stations. If you had an OTA antenna, you could do that anyway unless you lived too far south or west in the Cincy DMA. How about a rule that as long as you can get the "spotbeam" you can get that additional market for an extra charge, so long as you are getting your own DMA too?
 

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Super Moderator
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Proper implementation of SV would help ... but a law rewrite is needed in order to level the playing field and ALLOW satellite to carry the channels cable caries (and in some cases is REQUIRED to carry even though satellite is not permitted to carry the same channel to the same households).
 

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Beware the Attack Basset
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akron05 said:
You're not hurting the local DMA since they aren't serving you properly anyway?
If they aren't serving you properly, you should be writing a letter to the FCC to say so. Think of it as something that a cat might leave in a sandbox; especially come license renewal time.

Dish Network has always been on top of subscriber's viewing rights. Those who feel wronged need to be adding their voice through their elected representatives on Capitol Hill. While policy comes out of the FCC, law comes out of congress.
 

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Legend
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
harsh said:
If they aren't serving you properly, you should be writing a letter to the FCC to say so. Think of it as something that a cat might leave in a sandbox; especially come license renewal time.

Dish Network has always been on top of subscriber's viewing rights. Those who feel wronged need to be adding their voice through their elected representatives on Capitol Hill. While policy comes out of the FCC, law comes out of congress.
When I say "not serving properly" I mean that a particular network is not available in the DMA, only in a neighboring one. IOW, watching a Columbus, OH ABC affiliate isn't hurting a single station in Zanesville since there is no ABC affiliate in Zanesville, using my example. Another similar market would be Salisbury, MD.
 

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akron05 said:
When I say "not serving properly" I mean that a particular network is not available in the DMA, only in a neighboring one. IOW, watching a Columbus, OH ABC affiliate isn't hurting a single station in Zanesville since there is no ABC affiliate in Zanesville, using my example. Another similar market would be Salisbury, MD.
Unless, for example, if the Zanesville ABC had Dr. Phil and the CBS affiate brought in also had Dr. Phil.
 

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Legend
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
There should also be provisions for secondary affiliates or translator stations with their own local news. Like almost any station in North Dakota, or KNAZ (NBC) in Flagstaff. Flagstaff, AZ is part of the Phoenix market, but KNAZ is a full-power satellite of KPNX in Phoenix...except-it has it's own station ID and its own local news. In a sense Flagstaff could probably be considered its own market with one network affiliate and then the rest brought in on repeaters from the neighboring market, but the FCC decided not to do it that way.

Either just carry KNAZ on the Phoenix DMA period, or create a Flagstaff "submarket" that has the station available. The other repeaters in the Flagstaff area provide OTA reception of the Phoenix stations but as far as I know have no other ID to differentiate them from the main station in Phoenix, so for the other stations it's a moot point.

I think you have a similar situation in other markets, especially in the West, like with KSGU channel 12 in St. George, Utah. It's a CBS satellite of KUTV in Salt Lake City, and I believe they too have some local content.
 

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Godfather
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akron05 said:
IOW, watching a Columbus, OH ABC affiliate isn't hurting a single station in Zanesville since there is no ABC affiliate in Zanesville, using my example.
Of course this hurts the local station. ANYTHING you do, other than watching the local station, hurts them by reducing their audience and hence their advertiser appeal. This is true whether you watch DNS, or HBO, or even if you simply choose to turn off the TV and read a book.

The question is not whether your behavior hurts the local station, but whether they have a right to have some particular behavior legally proscribed. The scope of the local stations' territorial claim is what the debate is all about.
 

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Legend
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
joblo said:
Of course this hurts the local station. ANYTHING you do, other than watching the local station, hurts them by reducing their audience and hence their advertiser appeal. This is true whether you watch DNS, or HBO, or even if you simply choose to turn off the TV and read a book.

The question is not whether your behavior hurts the local station, but whether they have a right to have some particular behavior legally proscribed. The scope of the local stations' territorial claim is what the debate is all about.
Even just having the same stations cable carries in the market is an improvement. Using the Zanesville example, here are the local offerings carried by Time Warner:

2 WHIZ Zanesville, Ohio (NBC)
3 WOUC Athens, Ohio (PBS)
4 WCMH Columbus, Ohio. (NBC) (they even carry TWO NBC affiliates in Zanesville! How do they get away with that?)
6 WSYX Columbus, Ohio. (ABC)
7 WOSU Columbus, Ohio. (PBS)
8 WTTE Columbus, Ohio (FOX)
10 WBNS Columbus, Ohio. (CBS)
13 CW PLUS
15 WUAB Lorain, Ohio. (MyNet)

So they carry most Columbus major nets plus a Cleveland DMA station, WUAB, and a "CW Plus" which I assume is some general CW affiliate.
 

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Legend
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akron05 said:
Why can't the DBS providers and the government come up with this type of compromise with regards to locals and distant network feeds?

We have "significantly viewed" starting to show up to a limited degree now. WHy not allow all customers their own locals, plus either an adjacent market whose spot beam is recievable, OR, the NYC/LA locals?

For example, if you're in Zanesville, OH, you get the single Zanesville station, plus you can pick either Columbus, Wheeling-Steubenville, or Charleston-Huntington, OR-the NYC nets? You're not hurting the local DMA since they aren't serving you properly anyway? Maybe even JUST the networks not already available locally? You have NBC in Zanesville so just the other major networks?

Or perhaps you live in Cincinnati, Ohio but also want to get Dayton stations. If you had an OTA antenna, you could do that anyway unless you lived too far south or west in the Cincy DMA. How about a rule that as long as you can get the "spotbeam" you can get that additional market for an extra charge, so long as you are getting your own DMA too?
Government.
 

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Super Moderator
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Leveling the playing field between satellite and cable should be possible. That would go a long way toward the "compromise" that is being requested.
 

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akron05 said:
E(they even carry TWO NBC affiliates in Zanesville! How do they get away with that?)
CATV operates under different laws. If an OTA broadcast center reaches the headend of the station, then they are allowed to put it on their system. It's a holdover from a supreme court ruling when CATV actually stood for "Community Antenna TV".
 

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derwin0 said:
CATV operates under different laws. If an OTA broadcast center reaches the headend of the station, then they are allowed to put it on their system. It's a holdover from a supreme court ruling when CATV actually stood for "Community Antenna TV".
Allowed is an understatement ... in many cases cable is required to carry a station's signal even though satellite is forbidden from carrying the same signal. Level the playing field, Congress.
 

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Hall Of Fame
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How about all the former distant network customers simply "move" to a New York or L. A. address and keep their distants that way? As long as Dish keeps the distants on conus beam , there is nothing stopping the rv and truckers from simply changing their service address to one in the affected areas. Simply google search movie theaters in the above cities and then add an apartment number to it and you have a service address that qualifys for those locals. Keep billing address what it really is and change your service address only. You won't get the sub channels on spotbeam but you would get the main networks. This would help all rv and truck drivers for sure. If we web board members would put out the word like I just did , no one would lose their distants after Dec. 1, 2006.

This has been an unofficial public service message for Dishnetwork distant networks.
 

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Super Moderator
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That helps a few people (few hundred? few thousand?) who are willing to lie to get television, but it really doesn't help the few hundred thousand people who will be losing distants and, using that scheme, also losing locals.
 

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Legend
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Mike D-CO5 said:
How about all the former distant network customers simply "move" to a New York or L. A. address and keep their distants that way? As long as Dish keeps the distants on conus beam , there is nothing stopping the rv and truckers from simply changing their service address to one in the affected areas. Simply google search movie theaters in the above cities and then add an apartment number to it and you have a service address that qualifys for those locals. Keep billing address what it really is and change your service address only. You won't get the sub channels on spotbeam but you would get the main networks. This would help all rv and truck drivers for sure. If we web board members would put out the word like I just did , no one would lose their distants after Dec. 1, 2006.

This has been an unofficial public service message for Dishnetwork distant networks.
I will not lie to fix a problem I did not create. I don't live on top of a movie theatre in central Manhatten.
 

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I think the playing field is already "level" between Cable and Satellite.

SV means that viewers in Utah are getting stations that are 400 miles away on Cable and Sat. Level my end of the playing field, and let me put up my 3000 foot tower so I can get them OTA! ;)
 

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Legend
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
James Long said:
Allowed is an understatement ... in many cases cable is required to carry a station's signal even though satellite is forbidden from carrying the same signal. Level the playing field, Congress.
Here's an idea.

If there is a single network missing in your DMA between the following:

NBC
CBS
FOX
ABC
i
PBS
CW
MNT

You can recieve the corresponding affiliates for no additional charge from ANY adjacent DMA whose spot beam reaches your house.

In addition, if you are on a border county of your DMA (such as Richland County, Ohio, in Cleveland but bordering Columbus DMA) you can get BOTH DMA's if you choose, even for a small additional fee. This is generally how cable does it (Mansfield, OH Time Warner carries both Cleveland and Columbus locals)

If you border TWO DMAs, like Crawford County, OH you can get all three, just as cable generally does. Crawford County, OH is in Columbus DMA but borders Toledo and Cleveland's DMAs and IIRC the cable systems there carry nets from all three markets. Another example is Hancock County, WV, which is in the Wheeling DMA (not available on D* and E* but borders Youngstown and Pittsburgh) so let them get the adjacent until their own locals become available. If I lived in Weirton, WV I'd rather get my tv from Pittsburgh than New York if I can't get my true locals.

If you're in Cuyahoga County, Ohio, you get Cleveland, that's it, since you're deep inside your own DMA.

This plan also solves the significantly viewed problem.

People will still generally watch their local stations first. The DMAs are as they are with cable TV doing exactly what I described above, so how would allowing satellite to do the same hurt anyone? It gives more choice to the consumer, anyway.

Not sure how to solve the RV problem though.
 

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Any sort of change in the status quo won't happen until Dish switches from "Bob" ads to Political ads.

The networks have huge clout in Congress, because Congress members are elected by ads that run on network affiliate stations.
 
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