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Rich said:
I read your posts and all I can think of is how ignorant I am. My own fault for just using computers instead of learning how they work.

Rich
Waiting is wise.

Also, you don't need to have learned "how they work."

I did that in 1970 and continued that learning process ... and continued that learning process ... and continued that learning process.... It wasn't and isn't like learning to adjust to an automatic transmission in a car. It's like the auto mechanic who started working on cars in 1970 and by the 2000's had to adjust to the electronics to fix a car - uncomfortable and frequently mystifying.

Windows 10 is the final step in a decade-long process. The reality is that us old-timers (I'm over 70 and relate to the time of and characters on "Halt and Catch Fire") are not going to give up our "desktop computer feel" for day-to-day chores. We bought Surface Pro 2's running Windows 8.1 as soon as they became available and set them up to look and feel like desktop computers.

We knew we couldn't reject the "device-with-apps-reality" that my granddaughter's generation grew up with, are comfortable with, and depend upon. I'm embracing them just as the business community will have to. We had to find a way to slide from the traditional clunky desktop (bad word, it's under the desk) to the tablet model.

Enterprises will need to leave the 20th Century by 2020 and Microsoft has been struggling to get them to do it. The struggle is with IT folks who have allowed themselves to become too comfortable with what they know.

If you still have enterprise software that is Windows-based but won't run on Windows 10 and you're defending that, welcome to the exit door. You've rejected the entire Millennial Generation even though Microsoft gave you a decade to adjust.

For the rest of us non-enterprise individuals, the tablet model was created by Steve Jobs at Apple and embraced by all of us fools as the greatest thing since sliced bread.

Why do I say "fools" you may ask? Because it incorporates the American "throw away" habit. You don't fix it, you replace it. You don't swap hard drives because there are no spinning hard drives in a Surface, iPad nor any other tablet. You don't keep data on hard drives, you keep it in the cloud. You keep your gmail on Google's computers, not your computer.

Sure, we can continue to have a "tower" computer - I still have one near my desk. But that is not the 2015 computer model because there aren't computers or even software, but rather devices and apps.

I'm having a problem with the idea of keeping my data in a cloud, which really means someone else's computer with spinning hard drives which I can only access through the internet. My problem is the anxiety that arises when I remember that networks are mostly of the "ethernet" variety. I remember that...

The idea was first documented in a memo that Dr. Robert Metcalfe wrote on May 22, 1973, where he named it after the disproven luminiferous ether as an "omnipresent, completely-passive medium for the propagation of electromagnetic waves".
Using that idea of luminiferous ether disproven in the 19th Century as a whimsical naming choice was a good one. So is "The Cloud" a good choice. Neither has a true form, both can "blow away" in the slightest wind. But that's my habitual "old guy" thinking.

There is not enough nagging Luddite in me that I haven't started eliminating paper copies of records I have in PDF format. But storing any new creations only in "the cloud" just doesn't cut it for me. So there are nice spinning hard drives connected to our Surface Pro 2's.

I am contemplating using that free cloud space provided by Microsoft for backup of documents if I can get over the fear of having personal information being stored there. Why I worry about that I don't know since almost every new document is created on or downloaded from a computer connected to the internet and everything from the details of my finances to my medical records are on the internet. But I have these anxieties....

Windows 10 isn't the "must have" operating system. It is the "must be" operating system, the system that reflects what "must be" in 2015.

Windows 7 or, worse yet, Windows XT are so 20th Century. They operate on hardware that likely takes up more space than a large frying pan or even a toilet, can't really be carried around conveniently, are designed for hard drives not the cloud. Stick with it and you'll soon be getting a puzzled look from 30-year-old people wondering why you would want to drive as your primary car a 1968 Rambler American.

Oh, and I'm the guy who still has a couple of his original Tandy Model II's and Model 100's.
 

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I was looking forward to it. Now I'm not so sure...

I got an email tonight from Microsoft with the subject line "You've reserved Windows 10 - what's next?" it has this in it: "Here are some common questions about the upgrade process. Click on the links for answers." I clicked on all four links and they linked me to this:



I wonder if Satya Nadella got one of those emails.... :sure:
 

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MysteryMan said:
Try again. I received the same email. When I click on the first three selections it takes you to the "Windows 10 Q & A" page which you can find by right clicking the Microsoft icon on your task bar. The last selection takes you to the Microsoft Windows 10 "Specification" page.
SeaBeagle said:
I had the same email. But, the web page displayed fine. There are about 15 questions with answers.

Sent from my iPad 4 128GB using DBSTalk mobile application.
I tried it again today and got the same "the page you are requesting cannot be found" page. But since my default browser is Firefox, I pasted the links from the email into IE and got the properly linked pages but not before dismissing a repeating "script error would you like to debug" popup message.

Thinking about that, I then returned to Firefox and went to the Microsoft Store web page, signed out, and tried the links and they worked fine. The problem is we have a total of six computers that will be upgraded. So I've used six different email addresses for the initial notice, but none used the one we use for our Microsoft Account signin which account has meaningful personal data.

So again, I feel the need to take a moment to reflect on what they've set up for people like me who don't trust the "oh this will be easy" 70-gazillion-computers-all-in-the-same-minute-upgrade plan. Yeah, I'm being sarcastic, but even though I'm generally supportive of Microsoft, I'm in a trust-but-verify mode about this upgrade.
 

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dpeters11 said:
But, the thing is that they aren't doing everyone at once. They will be able to adjust things as the rollout goes.

I'm not sure of the planned timeframe however. I just know I'll have it on or before the 29th (the final bits), then wait for Redstone.
I don't disagree, but my "trust-but-verify" was sharpened due to the email problem - I figured out the problem was data in that really long link that kicked me to that error screen simply because I remained signed in to my Microsoft Account. It's the little things.
 

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hdtvfan0001 said:
Getting back on topic...

We're now up to 5 devices which will be in line for the Windows 10 update. Likely we'll do the update a few months after the formal release at the end of this month.
We'll have 6 devices, 5 now ready. I plan to update our two Surface Pro 2's and Intel Compute Stick all running 8.1 after a month. Our HP "desktop" should be fine waiting a few months. Our two HP Notebooks running Windows 7 I'm not so sure. The one purchased in 2010 probably will be fine.

The one with a 20" screen purchased in 2007 I have a desire to upgrade ASAP because Windows 10 should run much better than Windows 7, but it's been quietly sitting shut off for many months and I'm updating Windows now - what a nightmare. When I bought it it was more of an experiment related to streaming TV:



But after I upgraded to Windows 7 it seemed to get kludgy, particularly the video card. Upgrading the video driver made it almost unusable so I had to go back to an old driver. By the time 8 came out AMD said the video card is supported with the use of 1.1 Windows Display Driver Model (WDDM). Using that with Windows 7 apparently was possible, but there were a lot of file changes involved and I was on to other things so didn't try it. I have hopes with Windows 10. However, I do foresee some fairly extensive setup issues. Even if it bricks it, I won't care too much.

If I seem grumpy here about Microsoft I probably need to mention I'm a cheerleader for the changes that are being made under CEO Nadella including the Windows 10 strategy.

Microsoft shouldn't have focused its business plan on competing with Apple like it did for a period. They're moving back to being an OS/software company that's creating an updated "business ecosystem" (I hate buzzwords but...). That ecosystem includes productivity software, collaboration software, cloud services, and a universal "mobile-ready" operating system. Many of us individual users underestimate the meaning of Office 365 in the multi-national corporate business world. From a news release issued this week:

REDMOND, Wash., July 20, 2015 /PRNewswire/ -- Microsoft Corp. and General Electric (NYSE: GE) have signed an agreement to deliver Microsoft's cloud productivity suite Office 365 to GE's more than 300,000 employees across 170 countries worldwide.

"As we deepen our investments in employee productivity, Microsoft's innovative approach to collaboration made Office 365 our first choice for providing scalable productivity tools to our employees worldwide," said Jamie Miller, senior vice president and CIO of GE.

GE's IT organization, which is recognized as one of the most strategic and forward-thinking among large enterprises worldwide, selected Office 365 based on Microsoft's ability to deliver rich productivity experiences at massive scale across devices and platforms, as well as its ability to rapidly and reliably deploy to GE's large global employee population. Specifically, Office 365 will provide several key benefits to GE and its employees, including these:
  • A comprehensive and integrated set of productivity capabilities including email, Skype for Business calling and meetings, real-time document co-authoring, and team collaboration
  • Extensibility of the Office 365 platform, which will enable GE to enhance the capabilities of critical line-of-business applications by connecting to Office 365 through open APIs
  • IT controls and security capabilities that enable GE to provide employees with secured access to information and full productivity capabilities on a multitude of devices, while adhering to corporate policies, industry regulations and legal requirements
"Microsoft and GE share many values in common - openness, transparency, data-driven intelligence and innovation - all of which are driving forces behind Microsoft's own mission to help people and organizations achieve more," said John Case, corporate vice president of Microsoft Office. "As one of the most innovative companies in the world, GE understands what it takes to unleash the potential of its employees. We're delighted GE has selected Office 365 as the productivity and collaboration solution to empower its global workforce."

Microsoft (Nasdaq "MSFT" @microsoft) is the leading platform and productivity company for the mobile-first, cloud-first world, and its mission is to empower every person and every organization on the planet to achieve more.
The reality is Microsoft has learned that Apple iOS and Android are just more platforms for Office 365. Microsoft has become focused as a "platform" company meaning Windows, Azure and Office (I've linked Azure because many of us will never know it exists except by reading about it.). Then there's Continuum which is a product specifically for the heretofore confusing Microsoft phone. They have actually found a way to make a business smartphone a productivity tool.

If you are a company IT manager, struggling with your CEO who likes shiny iObjects, in order to keep every "tech implementation challenged" employee with an Android phone or iPhone full of apps from being able to facilitate a hackers backdoor into your company's data, you might embrace Continuum. It does what I and millions of others are already doing with our Surface Pro's. It allows the user to effectively hook his Windows phone to a larger monitor, keyboard and mouse to actually use an Excel spreadsheet or any other productivity software (no "apps" here) file saved to the cloud for business.

Fortunately for me, I no longer have to think about supporting employees in the business environment. Management at GE does. An integrated computer/device system where you can provide mobile employees with rechargeables including a phone which connects to a mobile system mouse, keyboard, and decent size monitor giving them usable access to the business-provided Office 365 software and related work product files seems pretty marketable over the long term.
 

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jimmie57 said:
I want to dual boot instead of replace my current version of Windows.
If you need to install Windows 10 on a separate hard disk or partition, you will need to purchase a full license.

Retail pricing information:

Edition Pricing
Windows 10 Home US $119
Windows 10 Pro US $199
Windows 10 Pro Pack US $99
On my old desktop which I don't use on a regular basis I did a dual boot install of Windows 8.1 with Windows 7. Right now I have the automatic Windows 10 upgrade set for the Window 8.1 partition. Presumably because I'm not creating a new partition for installation the upgrade will work. But who knows? And I don't really care. But I will try it as soon as they let me.
 

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SayWhat? said:
They'll pry my 7 from my cold, dead CPU.
The thing is, I have two 7 laptops and a dual boot 7/8.1 desktop, but we use our Surface Pro 2's 99.9% of the time and I don't understand the objections to 8.1. As i have it set up on the Surfaces, they are Windows Desktop computers that follow the pattern that goes way back, just with some minor changes from 7 to get used to - once you've set it up. AND...

Win 8.1 runs smoothly some Windows-98-minimally-upgraded-by-manufacturer-to-XT-then-abandoned software that I love which would not run on 7 no matter what I tried. I'll probably lose this with 10, but I may retain an 8.1 system somewhere.
 

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I'm a little confused. Win 8 when first released had its problems.

But I run Win 8.1 and it boots to a normal Windows desktop and runs programs just like XP - not exactly in every way like XP, but pretty much. Sure I can press the "Windows key" on the keyboard and have an "app" tile screen appear. If I use the tiles to access most of the programs I use, they open in the desktop screen anyway.

I edit the registry and make a myriad of other technical changes in much the same way I did in XP/Vista/7. Sure I've had to learn some new things, just like I did moving from 3.1 to 95 to XP to Vista to 7 and like I will moving to 10. Heck, I had apoplexy moving from DOS to Windows.

Sometimes things don't work out. I have to note here that the 2007 HP 20" Notebook I mentioned above that I was spending hours on trying to make "upgradable" to 10 won't get there. Every time I tried to update the graphics card driver to a compatible system, I ended up with regular failures. Then my wife said asked me why I was spending so much time on a computer we almost never used....
 

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And so it begins Windows 10 Automatic Updates Start Causing Problems.

The problem described in this Forbes piece is similar to the problem I had with that simple notification email. In this case, if you were a tester of the Windows 10 build process, my guess is they didn't send and install files piecemeal over a period of weeks. So literally this process has not been tested on, say, a random 1 million beta testers. So of course this will happen. It's not a surprise to me because in the process of trying to get my one computer to be compatible I simply could not get a driver to work on the video because it needed some older version intermediate software running to control the hardware and driver. That computer cannot be upgraded to Windows 10 because they want a different driver that can't be controlled by the old software and the new software won't work on the old card.

I am pretty sure our two Surface Pro 2's and the 2015 Intel Computer Stick will have no problem with the update. Since I have the old desktop dual booting with Win 7 and 8.1 my guess it will work. I'm not sure about the HP 2010 notebook which is running Win 7.

But the explanation in the article is somewhat disturbing:

And here lies the crux of the problem: many PC components and peripherals come with bundled software that automatically manages driver updates already. PC makers also often bolt on driver update management software onto their PCs (Lenovo is a notable example) which then has the potential to conflict with driver updates delivered by Windows Update.

Consequently unless Windows Update and third party driver management software receive updates at exactly the same time an ongoing battle of upgrading and downgrading can ensue between them. Third party software can be told to stop, but if the driver problem lies with Windows Update (as it does in this case) there's no way to stop Windows 10 reinstalling it once removed, which causes the problem to come back again and again.
What would have been perfect for me is to have had access to a Surface Pro 4 (or even a 3) built with Windows 10. Yeah, that's an expensive option but if I have any problems with our Pro 2's, like many here our "lives" are in those computers.

But I'm sure it will all go well. (That's me being totally out of character.)
 

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From Microsoft releases tool to hide or block unwanted Windows 10 updates we learn that a concession was made but you have to find it:

...But Microsoft does have a well-hidden troubleshooter package, KB3073930, which allows you to hide or block Windows Updates and, crucially, driver updates.

The package was digitally signed on June 15, and the accompanying Knowledge Base article is dated July 7, just a few weeks ago. The package is labeled for use with the Windows 10 Insider Preview, but based on its performance on the final (10240) preview build, it looks like it should work with the final release beginning July 29.
The article provides detailed information and screenshots on the package.
 

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Nothing is ever as simple as I expect. My Surface Pro 2 had already downloaded 10 but i had problems with my external monitor and disconnected to finish the install. Then reconnected it and it hesitated then worked fine.

My wife's Surface Pro 2 has a large number of USB devices connected from the Plugable Docking Station through an additional hub plus the same monitor. It hadn't downloaded, so I had to download which worked fine, and then did some of the install, then rolled back to 8.1. I thought maybe something just glitched in the download so I did it three times. Then I disconnected the additional hub and the monitor and did it again and it worked fine. I reconnected all the peripheral hardware and it all worked.

All the old programs designed for Windows 98 then upgraded to XT and abandoned by the manufacturer and didn't work in 7, but worked in 8.1 still work in 10!

On the other hand, my wife has a big time investment (years) in Family Tree Maker. I forgot that they used some elements of IE within their program, so it doesn't work quite right. I assume they will update it but she's irked right now.

On to the other three computers, sigh.
 

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jimmie57 said:
You can still run IE11. I am using it now.
Yes but FamilyTreeMaker incorporates elements of IE into their automatic interface with Ancestry.com and it doesn't seem to be working quite right - it works, just with some minor formatting glitches.
 

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In passing our 2010 HP Notebook running Windows 7 upgraded without a problem, easier than the two Surface Pro 2's. Still waiting for the Intel Computer Stick and the big old desktop to get the go ahead.

It's not a big transition problem moving from 8.1 to 10, so far.
 

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OK, so the two Microsoft Surface Pro 2's upgraded from 8.1 to 10 ok, but not without problems.

The 2010 HP Notebook upgraded from 7 to 10 without any problem.

The big HP Desktop on which I had 8.1 and 7 dual booting upgraded the 8.1 partition with no problem leaving the dual boot working fine.

The first run on the Intel Computer Stick I bought a couple of months ago failed. I have a complex problem in that I have the graphics resolution set to 720x10something (I'm not near the computer now) to feed my old 2003 Pany Plasma. When I click on the Microsoft Store app it won't run telling me the resolution is too low. But it streams video to that Pany just fine. I'll deal with it somehow, but I have a fear I'm not going to be able to get the proper video stream.
 

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Drucifer said:
The FF updated W10 version installed itself while I was watching the Mets. It stated something about being faster under W10.

I wonder how many upgrades I'll be getting in the next couple of months.
40.0.2 does seem faster and doesn't seem to crash like 39.x.x
 

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phrelin said:
We'll have 6 devices, 5 now ready. I plan to update our two Surface Pro 2's and Intel Compute Stick all running 8.1 after a month. Our HP "desktop" should be fine waiting a few months. Our two HP Notebooks running Windows 7 I'm not so sure. The one purchased in 2010 probably will be fine.

The one with a 20" screen purchased in 2007 I have a desire to upgrade ASAP because Windows 10 should run much better than Windows 7, but it's been quietly sitting shut off for many months and I'm updating Windows now - what a nightmare. When I bought it it was more of an experiment related to streaming TV
Well, I've learned a few things. The two Surface Pro 2's running 8.1 upgraded, albeit not exactly smoothly (the fact that they are Microsoft computers seemed like they should have been simple, but they both have a lot of peripherals hooked up to them which seemed to cause problems until I unhooked all but the basics - monitor, keyboard and mouse to do the upgrade).

The dual-boot desktop was a breeze replacing the 8.1 partition with 10 while leaving the 7 partition optionally available for booting.

The 2010 notebook also was a breeze.

As expected I can't get the 2007 notebook graphics to work beyond Win 7.

On the other hand...

Despite the fact that the Intel Compute Stick is running the Windows 8.1 32-bit operating system just fine, after many tries involving many hours each try, it just simply won't upgrade. Even though MS says it's hardware is ok, there are many complications, beginning with the fact that it requires a bluetooth keyboard/mouse which disconnects during the process. And, despite the fact that it has almost no software, there isn't enough free RAM. So based on MS web site info, the last attempt I went to the MS web page Installing Windows 10 using the media creation tool and created an "installation disk" on a USB drive, again at 90%+ completion it froze and had to be rolled back to 8.1 and it appeared for awhile I had bricked it. It doesn't matter since it was my experiment to stream video from websites not supported by my Amazon Fire TV Stick or Dish Hopper. So I've ordered a Roku stick which will stream from all those websites.

I like Win 10 just fine, but then again I was using both 7 and 8.1 on different computers without any confusion or problems.
 

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While fooling around with my Intel Computer Stick I discovered this Microsoft website Installing Windows 10 using the media creation tool which explains the following:

The media creation tool can be used to upgrade your current PC to Windows 10 or to create a USB or DVD and install Windows 10 on a different PC.

Here's a quick look at the steps to get Windows 10 installed on your PC using this tool.
This allowed me to create an "install disk" on a USB drive by following the instructions. Why this option was not available or not given publicity right before the rollout is beyond me.
 
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