[jnelaine]

Ok, I've read through a ton of threads and my head is swimming. I figured it would be easier if I just posted a question with my current configuration and let you experts tell me the best way I should configure things when I upgrade.

I will be ordering an upgrade soon to replace my two HR10-250s and GXCEBOTD with HR21s and AM21s. I currently have a powered Eagle Aspen 5x8 Multiswitch on my roof with my 3-LNB oval dish and an HD antenna. The multiswitch sends the OTA signal down each line and then I have a passive diplexer near each TV which splits the antenna signal back out. I have two lines running to all three locations.

I'm hoping to keep at least one of my HR10s hooked up (sitting on top of one of the new HR21s), but it's not an absolute requirement if that will makes things too tricky. But I definitely want to be able to pipe my OTA signal down the lines to each location. So, what's the best way to do this?

For some reason I thought I heard that it's hard to diplex an OTA signal into the lines when you have the new 5-LNB dish. Is that right? If so, should I try to get a SWM-8 and then run the OTA signal down the second line to each location? If I do that, I assume I could use one of the legacy outputs from the SWM to the location which will have the HR10 sitting on top of the HR21.

But if it's not hard to diplex the OTA into the new setup, I guess I can go with my current setup (2 lines to each location). But I assume I will still need to get a new multiswitch since I doubt my current one works with the new dish.

Here's one other thing to consider - occasionally I like to split the signal and run a line to a different room (like when I have a Super Bowl party and want to hook up an extra TV). With my current setup this doesn't really work since you need to run both lines to an HR10 in order to get all three satellites. So maybe SWM would be better for me (I think I heard those are easier to split).

Sorry for the 20 questions - I hope I made sense! Thanks very much for your input!

Jay

 

[houskamp]

For some reason I thought I heard that it's hard to diplex an OTA signal into the lines when you have the new 5-LNB dish. Is that right? If so, should I try to get a SWM-8 and then run the OTA signal down the second line to each location? If I do that, I assume I could use one of the legacy outputs from the SWM to the location which will have the HR10 sitting on top of the HR21.

Jay

Thats your best setup.. mixing OTA and the new sats is a touchy thing to do.. it can be done but can be a trick..

 

[Tom Robertson]

Details.

How many coax run from switch to the room that you hope to have both an HR21 and HR10?

How many total DVRs and receivers do you want? More accurately, how many tuners?

How easy is it to run coax to your locations?

When you say "split the signal and run a line to a different room" do you mean you move a receiver to that room?

The big issue is the HR10(s). If you keep one or both of them, it sounds like you'll need more coax, just to support them.

I currently have both a WB68 and a SWM8 in my setup and they are wired in parallel with high bandwidth splitters. I also have a ton of coax running so I can do almost everything I would want via WB68s and still have OTA running on its own coax. Sounds like if you have enough tuners and enough coax, you might want to do a similar setup to support a HR10. It will also let you have rooms with hot lines available to move receivers into as needed.

Or you can do a SWM8 (or two) to run single coax for the HR21s and legacy ports for the HR10s. You could diplex off the legacy lines for the HR10s and OTA.

Hope this helps,
Tom

 

[jnelaine]

How many coax run from switch to the room that you hope to have both an HR21 and HR10?

I have two lines to each of my three locations.

How many total DVRs and receivers do you want? More accurately, how many tuners?

I'm not adding any new locations, I am just putting an HR21 (with AM21) in each of my three locations, and I am going to keep one of my HR10s (or two if they let me keep the leased one).

How easy is it to run coax to your locations?

Since I already have two lines running to each location, I'm not planning on running any new wires.

When you say "split the signal and run a line to a different room" do you mean you move a receiver to that room?

I would probably hook up one of my old HR10s in the new location (temporarily).

The big issue is the HR10(s). If you keep one or both of them, it sounds like you'll need more coax, just to support them.

I'm hoping that I don't have to run any more coax. I know I can do what I want if I have a SWM but I didn't want to fight that battle (with DirecTV or with installers) if I could just use a "regular" multiswitch and diplex an OTA signal into the lines.

Hope this helps, Tom

Thanks! I can use all the help I can get!

 

[Tom Robertson]

The HR10s are not compatible with the SWMs and need their own coax lines. Tho you can run them in single tuner mode if you want and use the SWM for the HR21s.

Cheers,
Tom

 

[houskamp]

run a SWM8 to the new recievers, use extra lines for OTA, and run the H10 off legacy ports..

 

[Tom Robertson]

run a SWM8 to the new recievers, use extra lines for OTA, and run the H10 off legacy ports..

Coax?

 

[jnelaine]

Ok, so it sounds like I'll definitely need a SWM if I want to continue using my HR10 (via the legacy port), but I haven't made up my mind if I'm going to keep the HR10 for sure. If I don't keep the HR10, how hard is it to diplex an OTA signal into each line using a "regular" (e.g. non-SWM) multi-switch? I'm planning on going with the free install that DirecTV is sure to offer me, so will they be able to do this? Why is diplexing an OTA signal in harder with the new dish?

 

[Tom Robertson]

The Ka signals ride the same frequency range as the OTA signals from the dish to the BBC. The BBC then upshifts the Ka range to a range the receiver can use.

You can diplex awkwardly by moving the BBC to between the dish/switch and the diplexer that merges the antenna signal onto the coax.

The other problem is the BBC can't go outside. A weather proof box can work, but you still introduce problems if that box isn't truly weather tight.

Cheers,
Tom

 

[jnelaine]

The Ka signals ride the same frequency range as the OTA signals from the dish to the BBC. The BBC then upshifts the Ka range to a range the receiver can use.

You can diplex awkwardly by moving the BBC to between the dish/switch and the diplexer that merges the antenna signal onto the coax.

Ok, this speaks to my total ignorance on the new hardware... I actually had to look up what "BBC" means. :nono2: I guess this is another reason why I should go for SWM since it sounds like you don't need BBCs.

So, I've heard horror stories about trying to get DirecTV and the installers to put a SWM on your order. Is that true? I have no problem with buying one from SolidSignal if D* won't provide it, but will the installers give me a problem when I ask them to hook it up (and hook up an OTA signal to the second line to each location)?

 

[Tom Robertson]

Sorry, I didn't mean to get that technical.

SWM is still pretty new and hard to get arranged. That could change anytime now, but for the time being, you'll likely have to get one from someone else. Solidsignal is an excellent choice from what I've read.

Thankfully, it seems that more installers are at least trained in SWM technology. So you should be able to get it installed without hassle. Have a six pack of cold drinks ready...

Cheers,
Tom

 

[houskamp]

Ok it was late last night and I was in a hurry..
From what he said he currently has 2 tivos.. so he should have 2 lines to each location..
best thing would be:
4 lines from dish to SWM8..
SWM output 1 to powerinserter then to HR21 #1
SWM output 2 to HR21 #2
Then use the second line at each location for the OTA (via AM21)
This will keep the OTA from interfering with the sat signals..
If he decides to keep one of the HR10s this would need new cable run for it off of the legacy ports on the SWM8..

 

[jnelaine]

Ok it was late last night and I was in a hurry..
From what he said he currently has 2 tivos.. so he should have 2 lines to each location..
best thing would be:
4 lines from dish to SWM8..
SWM output 1 to powerinserter then to HR21 #1
SWM output 2 to HR21 #2
Then use the second line at each location for the OTA (via AM21)
This will keep the OTA from interfering with the sat signals..
If he decides to keep one of the HR10s this would need new cable run for it off of the legacy ports on the SWM8..

Thanks, but for the location which will have the HR21 as well as the HR10, couldn't I send one line from the SWM8 to the HR21 and then diplex the OTA signal into the legacy output of the SWM8 and send that line to the HR10 and diplex it out to the AM21? If I do that, I shouldn't have to run a third line to that location. Does that sound reasonable? I only need to hook up one of the tuners in the HR10.

Thanks

 

[jnelaine]

Ok, now that I just posted that I realized that I probably still need to run two lines to my HR10 even if I only want one tuner. Otherwise it can't control all the LNBs. Is that right? If so, then I guess I *do* need to run a third line to make this work. Bummer.

 

[Tom Robertson]

Ok, now that I just posted that I realized that I probably still need to run two lines to my HR10 even if I only want one tuner. Otherwise it can't control all the LNBs. Is that right? If so, then I guess I *do* need to run a third line to make this work. Bummer.

You only need to use a third if you want two tuners. A single line can access all the LNBs via the switch and signaling.

The only time you need more lines is between switch and switch (one of which is most commonly the switch inside the dish itself.) Those 4 lines for a 3LNB or 5 LNB dish. More if you have internationals or 72.5° SD locals which are extra dishes.

So you're plan of SWM to the HR21 and one tuner HR10 and feeding OTA will work very well.

Cheers,
Tom

 

[jnelaine]

You only need to use a third if you want two tuners. A single line can access all the LNBs via the switch and signaling. So you're plan of SWM to the HR21 and one tuner HR10 and feeding OTA will work very well.

That's great to hear! With my current setup, I know that I have problems if I only run one line to an HR10 - some channels come in and some do not. I think it has to do with which transponder each channel is coming off of. But maybe that is because all of my lines are currently coming out of my Aspen multiswitch. So, if I understand you correctly, this problem goes away when I run a single line from one of the legacy outputs on the SWM8. I can run that single line to an HR10 and get all channels (but only have a single tuner). Correct?

 

[Tom Robertson]

Yup, that is correct. You'll need to reset the HR10-250 to use only the one tuner, but it should work fine. I've done it from time to time myself.

Cheers,
Tom

 

[jnelaine]

Awesome - thanks for everyone's help. I'm guessing I will need to purchase the SWM8 on my own since DirecTV doesn't provide them (except if you are a new customer with 5 or more locations). Hopefully they can set up the work order for the installers and let them know that they will be installing a SWM8.

 

[Tom Robertson]

I'm thinking they will support it soon and you're right, now you'd likely have to buy your own. You might get reimbursement, if you ask very nicely.

My sense is more installers are at least familiar with it, so you should be able to get them to install. (And cold drinks on a hot day come in very handy...)

Cheers,
Tom

 

[jnelaine]

One more question - does it matter what kind of splitter I get in order to split the OTA signal from my rooftop HD (UHF) antenna down to my three locations? SolidSignal sells a bunch of them. Do I need power-passing on all ports? Some work in the 5-1000MHz range and others work up to 5-2600MHz. Does it matter? Should I even bother to buy one, or will the installer have them?